Horror Movie Talk

Dawn of the Dead is a pretty barebones movie and as
such, there isn’t much to spoil. People living in zombie hellscape, find mall,
settle down, are overrun by biker gang. “But David, there is so much more to
this movie than just that story structure!” I agree! Most of what Dawn of
the Dead brings to the table is conversation fodder and philosophical debates.
So let’s take a look at some of the more interesting talking points that are
found in Dawn.

We Are Already Zombies!

This is a theme that we are presented with a few times. Why
are these zombies here at the mall? Why are they picking up items and using
them in a vain attempt to act human? Because this is what they know, this is
what is familiar to them. When you boil that down, what these zombies knew
before death was just going to the mall and buying stuff, the real terror
starts to set-in. We are just slaves to commercialism!

Our very purpose is to consume what is put in front of us
until we die and have to eat brains! Ok, maybe not that brains part, but still.

What’s even scarier is that our four alive protagonists do
the same damn thing! They play in the mall and have a great time until the
novelty wears off, and they start to fall into the rut of mall life. And then
the marauding biker gang came. C’est la vie.

The Death AlleGORY

Zombies take what scares us the most, and shoves it in our
face in the form of an insatiable horde who wants us to join their ranks. They
force us to look at our fear of social collapse and civil unrest.

Unruly mobs scare us. Social unrest scares us. Death scares
us.

Zombies are the personification of all of these things. They
force us to deal with these issues face to face.

The Death Reality

Dawn of the Dead forces us to deal with the real life
issue of death as it enters our life. What do I mean by this, and how is it
different than the death allegory? I mean the fact that at some point in every
single zombie movie you are invested in the protagonists, and at least a few of
them become zombies that the group has to “deal with”. The protagonists turn,
against their will, into the antagonists.

And once you realize that, you place yourself in that
position, often with a group of friends or family members and you ask yourself,
“Could I do it? Could I put down my friend/lover/parent?”

The Strategic Mind of Zombie Preppers

Look – if you haven’t found someone to talk about strategy
and tactics for the eventual zombie apocalypse, just hit me up! This is one of
the best parts of zombie movies, figuring out how you would handle yourself and
your family in the event of an outbreak. I’ve reached such a fevered pitch in
this arena that I am actually outfitting my truck to be able to double as a
zombie bug-out vehicle (if you talk to my wife, it’s a family camper) for just
such an occasion.

Dawn of the Dead does a great job of taking the “what
would you do” portion of the zombie problem and taking it to the extreme right
away. Well, first off, you have to think about your party. You need good cohesion
and morale, and it helps to have some people who know their way around
firearms.

Next, you need a diverse array of skills. We are talking
about people who can pilot a helicopter, who maybe have a CDL for handling
those big semis with double clutches and people who know their way around
communications equipment. Dawn of the Dead gives us all of that.

Finally, we need someone who understands how to fortify a structure or location for optimal living in a zombie-infested world.

Dawn has all of the above in spades.

Seriously, if you want to talk about zombie tactics, please
reach out to me on this site or any of our social media.

Differences Between the Book and the Film

The start out, I wanted to talk about the differences between the book The Shining, and the movie The Shining.

• Dick Halloran
  • In the book, Dick Halloran lives and ends up being instrumental in saving Wendy and Danny
  • In the film, Dick gets pretty much instantly murdered, and only helps circumstantially by bringing up the snow cat.
• The Overlook
  • The hotel is a real entity in the book, it is very literally trying to consume the Torrence family
  • In the film, the hotel seems to be haunted and there are hints that it is steering Jack, but the connection between Jack’s psychosis and the hotel is unclear.
• Tony
  • Tony in the book is Danny’s “imaginary friend” that talks to him and shows him things. But really, Tony is a spirit that is more of a guardian angel.
  • In the film Tony is… What is tony? He seems to be Danny’s subconscience or a spirit possessing him… or something.
• Hedge Animals (The one welcome change)
  • In the book, there were a bunch of topiary animals that would move and eventually attack Wendy, Danny, and Dick.
  • In the film, the hedge animals don’t exist, but there is a hedge maze, which figures into the ending.
• The Ending
  • In the book, Jack is distracted by trying to kill his family and forgets to release pressure from the aging boiler in the basement. As a result, the boiler explodes, ripping a hole through the Overlook, and causing it to be burned down to the ground.
  • In the film, Jack gets lost in the hedge maze and freezes to death.

Differences in the Doctor Sleep Movie/Book

The differences are very interesting given that a sequel to the book and a sequel to the movie were created.

So the sequel to the book The Shining includes Dick Halloran being a personal mentor to Danny, and the Overlook no longer existing.

The sequel to the movie uses the source material from the book sequel, but doesn’t have the physical presence of Dick, and does have the Overlook still standing in it. Considering the problems that presents, Mike Flanagan does a great job.

It goes without saying that Jack Nicholson is fantastic in this film. He is 100% Jack.

Shelly Duvall is also iconic in this film. She is also the weirdest proportioned human being on film imo.

The Good Bits

There are a few shining moments in this film, where people act like humans. They are:

1. Wendy speaking to the pediatrician, and
2. Dick Halloran speaking with Danny about the shining.

Music is also a huge part of what makes this film work. The score is filled with mid-20th century composers like György Ligeti , Krzysztof Penderecki, and Béla Bartók. The aleatoric music of Penderecki has in particular become the de facto style of modern horror films.

The Confusing Parts

I still have questions about this film. I’ve read the book, which filled in most of the gaps, but really it’s a completely different story. So here are a few things that I still don’t understand what Kubrick was going for:

• What causes Jack to go insane?
• What purpose do the ghosts serve in the hotel? To be spooky?
• What’s up with Tony? Is Danny Possessed? Is it Danny’s Subconcience?
• The sexual stuff… why? 
• Why does Dick come back?
• Why is Jack in that photo at the end?

So really, my beef with this movie is that there isn’t a lot ofconnective tissue, or rather, it does a really bad job of answering “why” things happen.

This episode of horror movie talk is brought to you by better get help dot com. If there’s something interfering with your happiness or preventing you from achieving your goals, better get help. Online counseling can help. They offer license professional counselors her specialized in issues like depression, anxiety, relationships, trauma, anger, rage, seething hatred, family conflicts, hallucinations, LGBT Q matters, grief, homicidal psychopathy and more. You’re gonna get help on your own time and at your own pace, and anything that you share is absolutely confidential. And if for some reason you’re not happy with your counselor or if you end up killing your whole family, you can request a new counselor at any time at no additional charge. Best of all, it’s truly affordable for our listeners who use the special code HMT a checkout. You’ll receive a free act sharpener mail to you when you sign up so get started today. That’s better. Get help dot com Hello and welcome to horror movie talk and opinionated and accidentally funny Horror Movie review Show your panel of expert hosts each week are Dr Bryce Hansen, who holds a phD in spook ology, and Professor David Day, the foremost expert on scare. No nose. New theatrical releases always get priority. But we also review older horror movies both good and horrible. I’m Bryce Hanson, and I’m Davide. And we have a special special special guest today. Our friend Aaron Hanson, our friend. Aaron. How are you doing, Aaron? Doing good. Thanks for Kevin. How dare you? Bryce knows I have a new toy, and he’s being the the child that we all know he is and denying the use of it. He’s not gonna allow me to do my my my sound effects. Yeah. So we’re gonna have a lot of clips today because David has has his computer set up now drops. Oh, we’re at risk of too much entertainment. No, no. Watch out. Is the fun patrol. Okay, so, uh, we’ve got a great episode today. I’m super excited about this one. Before we get into it. Let’s talk about our website. It’s at horror movie talk dot com. Please go there and you’ll find past episodes and posts and block post of a horror movie topics and also links to our social media. You can follow us on Facebook. Twitter, instagram, tic tac picked on YouTube you to Lincoln Din. Just search for horror movie talk or horror movie talk podcasting. He’ll find us there. We post new episodes every Wednesday. So please subscribe and leave a rating on iTunes. We’re trying to get up to 200 ASAP, and we’re at, you know, 48 right now. So, uh, you ready? If you leave a rating that it is a big impact on our visibility. So what are we gonna talk about? We’re gonna talk about the Shining. Have been So I’ve been so like, excited for and dreading this episode because Bryce Bryce is not a a cubic fan, and, uh, I don’t know. I’m just I’m just worried. I’m just worried about how this will go. Don’t worry. Okay. Ah, we’ll start out giving a brief review and our score for the movie. We score on a scale of 1 to 10 1 being a miserable dredge where it makes you angry. Five being an average film that hits all the expected marks and 10 being so good it transcends genre boundaries. After we give our score will get into spoilers and take a deeper dive in one into what we liked and hated about the film. Um, you know, it’s the shining. So if you’re if you’re worried about spoilers, yeah, I mean, you know, really shouldn’t. Why are you listening to this show? Should have watched it by now. Right? It’s been years on kind of What kind of pathetic person hasn’t seen the shining It? I mean what? I mean, no one in this room, right? Yeah. We’ve all seen the Shining. Yeah, later will be doing a couple special special bits. I’m really excited about this one we’re going to do it came from social Media, where we’ll read a couple comments from our social media feeds on people reaching out to us. And then, yes, it returns horror or porno. Theo. The last time we played this, Aaron was also a special guest on the show. That was for the already or not show. You’ve done this on purpose. There’s one or two things happening either either. I mean, either the porno is following Aaron around or she’s bringing it here with this thing is not the case. This is just basically the only thing that gets us in the mood anymore. Is that your movie or a porno on the podcast. Yeah, You gotta listen to this Really necessary for a relationship at this point, those screams and suffering, and then you just like it’s time to go. So if you’ve never listened a horror porno the game before, buckle up and we definitely earn are not safe for work. Yeah, connotation. Yeah. This is a great game. I’m very excited. Now. You just do it when I’m on so that you know, I can’t recommend it to any of my friends. Yeah, exactly. Well, I don’t know. Maybe still recommend. Yeah. See, that’s one of the problems with me sharing the podcast with my network on Facebook because it’s all just chock full of Mormons. It’s like, Well, I’m got, like, 500 friends that are Mormon and, like the story that are not you say that like it’s a problem. But Utah has the biggest porn porn usage per of any state in all of the United States. Is that true? That is 100% true, according to Pornhub statistics. Interesting. Yeah. So this week we watch the shining, and it’s pretty good. Hello. Oh, wait. What? Really? Here is the trailer. I don’t suppose they told you anything in Denver about the tragedy we had up here during the winter of 1970? Well, a man named Charles Grady is the winter caretaker. He came up here with his wife and two little girls think Muddy. From what I’ve been told me, he seemed like a completely normal individual. But at some point during the winter, he must have suffered some kind of a complete mental breakdown. Ran a muck, killed his family with an ax. You can rest assured, Mr Own. And that’s not gonna happen with me. Yeah, sure. Yeah, I guess so. For some people, solitude, isolation, Johnny the Shining is available to rent on most streaming platforms. But if your horror movie fan, you should probably have this on DVD line around anyways. It’s the shining, right? Yeah. Um, so let’s give it snaps. The Shining is a tale of an aspiring writer, Jack Torrance, played by Jack Nicholson, taking his wife, Wendy, played by Shelley Duvall. Hello. I’m Shelley Duvall on and, uh, thanks, Shelly. She’s a special guest today, and, ah, his son Danny played by some kid named Danny, and he takes them to the Overlook hotels. It lies secluded deep within the heavily forested mountains of Colorado. He’s hired to be the caretaker of the Overlook in the winter off season. While there, he intends to write the next Great American novel, whose protagonist is worn down by the pressures of capitalism and the lack of leisure time. Meanwhile, Danny Torrance is tutored by a magical Negro about Danny’s ability to see into the future and read minds. Also, the hotel is haunted and Jack goes crazy. Do you really not know what the plot of the shining is? It’s the shining. It is that. Is that true? I’m just a little taken aback by your usage of of, um, the word, uh, the shining. No, that’s a trope. The magical Negro. You never heard of that before? No. Yeah. You need to defend yourself immediately. Well, yeah, like the legend of Bagger Vance. Like where it’s or driving Miss Daisy where you know, white people are. You have all these problems and their life is out of order. And then some super folksy African American person enters their life and solved all their problems and teaches them how to love again, or something like that. Oh, so it’s a trope. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. But also, he is magical. And he is a Negro. That is, it’s the most direct A representation of that trophy there could possibly be. I’m sad that the the joke fell flat of the of the novel. I’m gonna be honest. Whose protagonist was worn down by the pressures of capitalism in the lack of leisure time. Well, I mean, man, I love this movie so much. Uh, there’s so many different things about this movie that All right, calm down. Okay, here we go. I appreciate this movie. It is one of the It is one of Kubrick’s masterpiece is It’s visually stunning and meticulously crafted. It’s undeniably a great and important movie. I just don’t like it proves you it’s slow. The characters are empty shells of people that lack most semblance of humanity and motivation other than a to be scared or B to be menacing. And to be frank, I couldn’t figure out what was going on or why. Most of the time the book was better. Come at me, horror fans. I don’t like your pressure shiny. Wow. I mean, it’s just it’s It’s I mean the real lesson to learn in this show is it’s OK to be wrong, which is which is to say that everybody’s taste is very different and and sometimes we get people who are very angry at us. And you come at us about very strange things that are like they’re like, What? What? What was It was the guy, The guy I really liked the curse a la Llorona, but hated like terrified. And it was like terrified is objectively terrible movie. But the curse of La Llorona, though wow, really itch on my body was scratched up. OK, you fucking lunatic. He was He was really concerned for people that would listen to our show and take our advice and not see the curse of law. You’re ona that he thought, like we’re leading people away from really great or movies, which is fair. He’s got a different taste in us. Yeah, he’s like you. He’s just like you. You know, I liked watching like Siskel and Ebert back in the day, and I always disagreed with him, always disagreed with both of them. Like a lot of the time. I would usually disagree with critics when I was growing up, Um, so I mean, I don’t feel bad about it, but when it gets to vitriol when they’re like, these guys are fucking idiots. How dare they not like, first of all, your own? A. That’s just so telling of them, you know? I mean, it’s it’s just a taste thing. Yeah, it’s just a taste this anyways, the shining is terrible way. What did you give it? Oh, yeah, we gotta give the score. I give it an eight out of 10. Fight me. That wasn’t terrible. Yeah, that doesn’t sound like someone. I mean, it’s a good movie. It’s, you know, it’s a classic. It’s visually stunning. It’s amazing to watch in terms of filmmaking and craft, but storytelling leaves much to be desired. Seen my opinion? Seems so, uh, this movie. I feel like this movie’s responsible for my taste in in horror. Yeah, it’s hugely influential to and and I watched it when I was very young. Ah, it may have been one of the first. It may have been the first horror movie I ever saw, and, um, and and there was so much about it that was mysterious and vague and And that in and of itself was creepy to me. And not only creepy, but like, titillating like it made. It made me think about it, all that, you know, it may be like, Oh, what was that? What? What was that? What was that? And so you go back to the movie hoping that you you get something more from it, and but and in each time you would. But he would still be mysterious and in clinical and cold and weird. And it’s just it’s what I love Now you know, it’s almost like it. It recreates that feeling of when you’re a kid and you’re seeing something that’s inappropriate and you just cannot process it or understand it exactly. Even as an adult, it’s exactly that you watch it and you’re like, I don’t understand what’s going on. Yeah, yeah, it’s just this is just this vague wash of like terror and unease and just like Whoa! Hey, what? Wait a minute. What the fuck was that like? And then it really builds into and the music killed me as a kid, like it was like, you know, all those strings and all, and just so much intensity with the heartbeat and like, yeah, so what do you give it? Oh, this is the most solid 10 I’ve ever given, Aaron. Um, well, it is purpose that eyes this. This is the first time you’ve seen way Watched it days ago, three days ago, I had never seen it. I mean, I’ve seen clips and parodies, and but I have seen it start to finish, but yeah, it was. I mean, I can see why it’s beloved by so many people. And at the same time, I there were a couple moments. It’s story wise that I kind of shook my head and it’s like, Well, that was abrupt and there was no really leading to it Other than foreshadowing liken our previous. But I don’t know, it’s I’d say filmmaking wise brings it up a notch for me, just the mastery of it. So I’d probably say, nine out of 10 9 being the reflection of like there I feel like there should be a clear like story that, if that that you should at least understood. Even if you don’t understand what’s happening, you should understand the character’s motivations for what’s happening or you understand their motivations. But you don’t understand what’s happening. And I don’t think either one of those things occurred. Yeah, and we should. We should also mention that for those of you who aren’t who haven’t listened to Aaron, she’s been on a few episodes. I think you were on hereditary. And then also ready or not, Yeah, Hereditary was just like a special interview. She she wasn’t on the regular podcast, most of it. And Aaron is, of course, prices wife, and she is not a big horror fan. So she it’s like pulling teeth, getting her to watch a horror movie. So the context of getting her to watch the shining was that she saw a trailer starring the dreamy Ewan McGregor on She was like, Well, I got to see Dr Sleep So I want to see that which is on the face just completely shocking to me. I had to like I had to just dragger to see Interview with the vampire like that is the level of discomfort. Wait, what was in that movie released in 1994. Yeah. Oh, wait. Yeah, I was like, I was just really like she really dislike score movies you took. Wait, you took Aaron to see Vacher make her watch. Okay? He said he said, drag her too. So I was like, What? Have you guys drag her to the living room for ever? Um, what was the so anyways? The context was she wanted to see Dr Sleep, and she felt like she needed to see the Shining to understand it, which you don’t. But I definitely jumped at the opportunity to get her to watch the Shining so she could be on the episode today. Yeah, in terms of in terms of just being scared or feeling, feeling worried and that kind of thing as someone who’s not really a horror movie fan. How did the shining hit you? Um well, I think I was kind of ruined by, you know, 39 years of parody and endlich clips. But, um, I mean, the most shocking part is when Jack is like full psychopath mare, and that’s like the only thing you see it from the movie. I don’t know. The movie is so disconcerting to me. It’s It’s like I don’t know. There’s something so strange about a little kid riding around in a big, empty hotel and then he likes stops. And then the blood gets off the elevator and you’re like, What the fuck was that? No, that was It was definitely disturbing. And, um, I think there’s more instead of frightening, it was more just disturbing and uneasiness and then seeing the I won’t say a descent into madness because it was a hard left hand. But the, uh I mean, just seeing, like the setup for it and then the super weird sex scene with the dead person and are almost sexy. And I should say And then I don’t know, it just seemed like make out. We’ll talk about it later. But it wasn’t it wasn’t frightening. Yeah, I mean, she she didn’t really? Well, yeah, it’s not a movie that a non horror movie person would hate because it’s it’s pretty. Well, here’s that’s pretty tame compared to hereditary. Here’s the thing, Though. Internet Aaron has always done well. Yeah, in my experience with hereditary. No, she’s great. It’s just she just does not like the feeling of being scared. Of course. Does not like the feeling of dread. Yeah, like she does not like living there. Yeah, and that’s just my entire life. So, yeah, it’s like going It’s like wrapping myself in a warm blanket. Warm embrace. Yeah, All right. So let’s ah do mineral real quick. Um, if you want to support the show and we hope you d’oh, we go through great time of an expense toe. Try to bring a good product. We have a patriotic account. That’s where you can support us most directly. Any amount you pledge goes right back into the podcast to make it a better show for you. We have several tears that allow you access to exclusive bonus content, including early access to episodes as soon as we edited him. What? Which is, like, 22 or three days earlier, like this. Like this Last this last week for Dr Sleep, I I got it out day we recorded Saturday of ahead of time, Um, as well as in an entirely separate podcast called the After Pod. That’s only Oops, sorry. Waving around. Just stick your late ing and knocking Mike’s over. Um, the after pot is just a separate podcast where we leave the mike’s running and talk about behind the scenes info and what’s going on in our Lives at horror movie talk. Another way you can support the podcast is if you ever do you ever shop on amazon dot com. Have you heard of this website called amazon dot com? I got five things coming to me today. They’ve got everything we know you’re gonna shop in a hands on anyway. So if you go to our website horror movie talk dot com and click on the green button in the header of our website that says Shop on Amazon a portion of any of your Amazon purchase or, you know rental anything expand on Amazon will go to horror movie talk. And it’s not minute. It’s enough to make it worth your while to do it. Yes, so please, please do that. Don’t believe that it’s a small, little, half a cent sort of thing. It’s not. Yeah, um, so if you’re gonna buy or rent a horror movie after listening to the pod, click through the button in the banner shudder dot com is a streaming service for horror aficionados, and our listeners get a special deal. If you use code HMT it, check out. You’ll get a 30 day free trial instead of the standard shitty, godawful seven day free travel. You get that seven day free trial. You are a moron. Yeah. What do you think about seven day free trial? It’s Ah, it’s dumb. Yeah, that’s what we have. A little bit more higher than that. It’s bad. All right, Thanks. Thanks cc. Where we don’t have also check out our resident artist, Dustin Goebel. He is a professional artist who fucks hard. David wrote this copy. I altered it a little. Please follow him on instagram at D Goebel 00 d g o e b e l 00 to see some of his fabulous work. If you’re a horror fan, you won’t be disappointed. He also takes commissions for artwork from horror movie talk fans or from anyone. If you reach out, you can reach out to him at D Goebel 00 on instagram and make your artistic dreams come true. Tell him HMT sent you. Yeah. You can also check out his Web site, dustin global dot com. And you know what? He’s got some great taste. He was giving me some some advice. On what? On things I need to watch. Like cinematically Thea Other day I was talking to him and he said, You absolutely need toe. Here’s Here’s the things the two things he gave me He was like, You absolutely need to watch the raid to which I think is a Thai movie. Or maybe is that a horror movie? I think that’s an action. It is not a horror movie. It is an action. When he’s like we were talking about Commando and I was like, I action movies and he was like, Yeah, but the raid to this is the best action movie you’ll ever see. The camera works amazing. So I gotta watch that. And then and then also berserk. The the enemy Siri’s from the nineties, I believe, which was a mango thing anyway. So check out dust and he’s got some great stuff. Yeah, let me adjust this thing here real quick, so he does a for each of the posts for the last, like, a month and 1\/2 fish. He’s He’s created a custom artwork for it, and they’re all awesome. I especially like the lighthouse, one where he has bird characters with Siegel shit on him. And what’s the other really funny one that he did the pumpkinhead one with the Yabba Pumpkinhead one was with earbud was that that was great. It was better than that movie dessert. Yeah, it was good. So thanks again for listening and let’s get into spoilers. First of all, we just watched Doctor sleep, too. So that’s the context of this whole thing is that Dr Sleep was coming out. We wanted to shining before it. We usually do. You know the source material, like the original movie if there’s a remake coming out or the original if there’s a sequel coming out and we looked out and there was, ah, Week advanced screening for Dr Sleeps and now we’re doing the shiny Yeah, not that you care about any of this information, but that’s what it is. So let’s talk about first the I guess only I will be talking about this, but the movie versus the book okay for the Shining. Yeah, and we can even talk about the book versus the movie Doctor sleep because there’s a lot of crossover that’s interesting for people that are going to Dr Sleep this week. Aren’t yeah next week or whatever. So the main difference is in, I think the Shining is like Stephen King’s best selling work. Yeah, I think it is the one thing that got him. No, I guess the Kerry probably got him the most attention. I think that was the first, like, really big one. Yeah, maybe. Yeah, maybe. But I think the Shining is his number one book. Yeah, ever. And I’ll tell you after I watched the movie, you know, I didn’t I watch The movie is the first time as an adult, So I was in my twenties at least, and I was kind of underwhelmed or just like I. It’s one of those things where you get told something so important over and over again that when you watch it, it could never live up to it. But mostly I was confused. Yeah, and that’s like the taste it left in my mouth. And then I listened to the Audio Book of the Shining and it filled in all of the gaps. I was like, Oh, yeah, it made me see the movie in a different light and I started understanding right that Stanley Kubrick was telling his very own story. He was telling his very own story, but also telling it in like the vibe of it like that. He’s telling the story of seclusion and claustrophobia and insanity with vibe with with vibe and visuals but none of like the establishing story. It’s the same reason why you could never understand. I still don’t understand what the end of 2000 won is supposed to mean a fucking lord of 2001. It’s just he’s a visual artist, but he doesn’t necessarily tie it to a story or like conveying information other than look at how cool this looks look and listen like it’s all looking. Listen stuff, Yeah, So watching the shining and listen listening to you describe like how the book fills in gaps. Um, like, reminded me of reading 2001. A Space Odyssey think is in seventh grade and then watching the movie after we read it in our science class and you read the Shine, the Shining No. 4001. I apologize and uh huh. And still what? Well, it was okay. The teacher, like I walk in on parent orientation night and you know, the whatever orientation night, and he’s got like, various versions of the Enterprise models hanging from the ceiling and Star Trek. The next generation is playing cause it’s six o’clock and it’s on the TV. So anyway, so this is all coming in the front. So we read 2001 and then we watch the movie. And even like at that time, when we were discussing the book, he talked about how Kubrick was not necessarily making an adaptation. He was making a companion right to the book. So, um, I kind of feel like maybe that’s what he was like Maybe doing maybe he was making a companion to the Shining the book, but also, I guess he changed it a lot to make it his own. Yeah, there’s definitely so I think probably one of the best people to explain this is Stephen King himself. I have a clip of Stephen King. I don’t know if you know this or not, but Stephen King hate this movie like he absolutely hates Kubrick. Virgin of the Shine, which blows me away because this because it’s widely regarded to be maybe maybe one of the best horror films ever made ever. Right and use, You know he’s fair. But all of these points that Stephen King makes about Kubrick Shining are all completely valid to me. Like it totally valid, but explains why. Um, I prefer the book over over the movie. Anyways, here’s here. Stephen King talking about his take on the Shining The movie in the novel Shining Jack Torrance is a difficult character, but he’s fundamentally a sympathetic character, and I always visualized him is a piece of metal that’s bent 1st 1 way and the other by these malignant spirits who basically want Hiss son because his son is a psychically powerful person. So I saw these always warm characters characters that were being threatened by forces from without, from ghosts from riel supernatural creatures. And the film is extremely cold. Stanley Kubrick saw The haunting is coming from Jack Torrance from the Jack Nicholson character, whereas I always saw it from outside. So we had a fundamental a difference of opinion about, and I always thought that really difference between my take on it and Stanley Kubrick’s take on It was this. In my novel, the Hotel Burns in Kubrick’s movie, the hotel freezes. It’s a difference between more coal, but the images are striking, there’s no doubt about it. I mean, Jack Nicholson’s face in the doorway, his bearded, crazy printing face says, Here’s Johnny, which was his ad lib, and it became, you know, part of the movie. So the images is striking. But to me, that surface, it’s not substance. So I used to describe the Shining. The film is something like a beautiful car that had no engine in it. This this is so like this is so perfect to me like that. I love that I love. I love everything, Stephen King says. I hate everything he writes typically, but But I mean, the dude like I’ve said it before, did like Amazing Powerhouse of a writer. He’s a great storyteller. Yeah, here’s the thing. A great storyteller. It’s interesting to me that still, he can’t see this as art inspired by art like he’s so wrapped up in his own art that he like that he’s that he’s mad about the story being told in someone else’s. Aren’t that was inspired by Hiss? Yeah, I mean, yes, but it has. The only problem is probably has the name The Shining. It’s one of the most important books for him personally, probably because not just because it’s one of the best selling, but also it’s a pretty personal tale about alcoholism. Yeah, and being a writer and basically peeing on the edge of insanity because of, you know, disease and outside, you know, forces, supposedly And um, yeah, I mean, I would even go this far. It’s Stephen King said that the ending was the difference. Is the book the hotel Burns? I’d say, Instead of the hotel freezes and Stanley Kubrick’s It’s Jack Freeze like that, it really shows the focus of where the story is because in the book it’s It’s the hotel itself has power, and it’s trying to consume the family very literally Night and in the movie. It’s all about Jack Torrance and his inner demons. And then, in the end, it’s just it shows him him dying. And in the book, it’s the hotel dine. So it’s it’s kind of interesting that way. Yeah, I mean, it’s you can’t deny that this movie is very cold. Oh, yeah, absolutely not. Not not just literally, but emotionally. It’s very cold and detached. Yeah, absolutely. And but I mean, you know, and it’s But it’s, you know, I’m I’m an adult child of an alcoholic and and and I experienced alcoholism as a child. And I know that everybody, you know and I’ve talked to many kids or people who have also gone through that, and everyone’s experience is so similar, but also so different, you know, and it’s all. And I mean, maybe that’s just, uh, you know, maybe it’s just speaks to Maybe Q bricks. Experience with alcoholism was very different than kings. Actually, I’m sure it was because because they’re very different people. Yeah, but I knew it was even that the alcoholism is a much bigger part in the book, like it’s a main story point that it’s a source for the reason for why he is watching the Overlook Hotel because he got fired from his teaching job are like lashing out at a student. There is less alcohol in the movie then, then we’ll and it also explains it in the in the book. There’s no alcohol like he’s not consuming alcohol, but he’s acting like right. He is because the hotel is basically getting him drunk off of its off of its power. Um, so a couple things to talk about people that are interested in What’s the difference between the book and the movie The Shining and Dr Sleep? We can talk. I can talk about it briefly together cause I listen to the audio book for both, and I’ve watched both. Now the main differences are in the shining Tony, and this is one of the really confusing parts for me when I first watch it like, What exactly is Tony? Is it something possessing Danny? Or is it Danny Subconscious? Where? It was my impression, just from watching the movie that it was that it was the shine within Danny. Yet in the book, it’s much more specific. Tony is an actual spirit that communicates with Danno, so it’s It’s an imaginary friend that is, apart from Danny and Danny can see and talk with, and that’s that’s how it works, Okay, and then the in the movie, it’s like what? It’s Danny talking in a different voice mints like he’s make believing. It’s like he’s doing a puppet show. It’s like he’s fucked up to begin with. So you’re not it’s not. It’s not detached from Danny at all, right? It is so it’s somehow integrated into Danny. But really, it’s supposed to be his imaginary friend. That’s actually a ghost. Another one, this is Ah, this’d probably a good choice on Stanley Cooper. Expert Big part in the novel was these hedge animals. There is no hedge maze. But there was these hedge animals out in the front, and the hedge animals attacked like and it was all sweetie. The biggest part of menace was these hedge animals. Well, it was really creepy in the book. Like it was used to great effect in that they be like that. Did that hedge animal just move? Did it? Didn’t just start looking at me. You’re talking like topiaries or bushes, okay? And, uh, I’m sorry, Topiaries. She just She just listened to Dr Sleep, and she put me on blast for calling her out for saying u N z a U N. And, uh, her audio book e wing is what he prefers to be called. She’s It’s okay. It’s not your fault. You in your fucking buddies. It’s not your fault being Scottish in Norwegian, us, Welsh and Irish and British like we know. What’s up? Hey, I am Well, you’re Scottish English. I’m all that. And I just say, E wing, Yeah, you in that? Your your snooty and, uh and, uh, condescending. Yeah, And I’m like, Ah, that guy got nothing. The other changes that we’ve already explained. The hotel burns at the end of the book the Shining, which is difficult because in Dr Sleep the movie, you have to adapt a source where the hotel doesn’t exist. Well, so they hotel still exists in the movie, Doctor sleep on dhe, then the other main differences. Dick Hallorann survives in the book. I’m in the movie he’s murdered. So if you’re if you’re Mike Flanagan adapting Dr Sleep and Dr Sleep, the book exists in a world that Dick Hallorann is still alive and mentoring Danny and the Overlook Hotel no longer exists. It gives you some interesting, but I thought that they dealt with it really well. You would not be ableto notice that anything was out of place, the way he handled Dick Hallorann and and the hotel. And I think the hotel in Dr Sleep was very satisfying in the ending. And basically, if you if you know the books, you see that the ending of Dr Sleep. The movie is basically the same as the end of the shining. The book. Yeah, right. Yeah, it’s not being left with shining cue bricks shining on and then having to do Doctor a doctor sleep movie would not be terribly hard because they did leave the hotel intact. And so now you can just have an intact hotel to go to and be spooked out in and then and then blow up. Okay, so that’s enough about the books in the movies. Um, Jack Nicholson is 100% Jack Nickle sentence. He’s full, Full Jack. It’s creepier. I know, right? I really I really love. I was gonna share this leader, but I’ll jump the gun and just share this clip about, um, this isn’t what Ari asked Ari Astor says about the Shining, which is an interesting take Hey mentioned specifically about Jack, the character to which I agree with a SZ for his atmosphere is concerned. Like the Shining was, you know, it was a big one. I kind of I think the Shining is almost more, but it works almost for me more as a comedy than it does a horror film What’s that? You got technical cities like crazy from the beginning, before they even get up to the hotel like he’s ready to kill his family well before he even gets the job you want was being taken on. And then you have, like the title slamming into Monday and Wednesday. He’s gone totally insane. Three days then it was important to me to sort of sustain this doom laden tone where you know something awful is coming. So yeah, he is wrong. It doesn’t happen in three days, but yeah, it’s in the movie. It jumps forward a month, and it’s basically the same. And then Jacko’s and saying within like, three days. But I agree with him like if you if you watch Jack on the car ride to the Overlook, he’s basically like, I want to take this fucking car off the road. I’m gonna give everybody here. Yeah, he’s When you look at Jack Nicholson, you just always assumed that he’s insane. And a psychopath who are on this earth, or at least just supremely sarcastic right. I like he gives off this. He gives off the vibe of like, I get fucked every night. You know, like and twice on Sundays And, like, just and it’s it’s It’s it’s like, ominous, you know, he’s just he’s got that. It’s like super straight Tom Cruise, you know? What are you insinuating? I don’t know if they both have this weird striking to give anything more straight than Tom Cruise. My apologies. Have you ever seen risky business? So, um, Shelley Duvall is the weirdest proportioned human being ever. Hey, you be nice to poor Shelly. Jesus. Hello. I’m Shelley Duvall. I forgot she was here. Um, so sorry. Yeah. Shelley Duvall is She’s she’s greatness. She’s in terms of the character existing solely. Toe look terrified. I can’t think of anyone better than Shelley Duvall. And apparently Kubrick borderline tortured that he tortured her to get those react on the side of this movie to make her to basically give her ptsd. Um, not cool. There’s There’s a few shining moments in this no pun intended for me. And one of them is Shelley Duvall. When, when she’s talking with the child psychiatrist, it’s the pediatrician that comes to check on a pediatrician or whatever. So the there’s there’s just two moments that I can point to where humans act like human people. In this movie, one is Shelley Duvall. Talking to the pediatrician and two is when Dick Hallorann is talking to Danny. Yeah, when he’s sitting with him with the ice cream, those areas like, Look, kid, what’s up? Those were the two most like, resonant human moments where people act like normal people. Yeah, and then the rest of it’s just like I don’t understand, Like what they’re feeling or what’s going on internally with them. Well, Shelley Shelley is provide. I would I would argue that that she has a lot of humanity when she’s scared. Yeah, it’s specifically when she like when she finds what he’s been writing this whole time. And it’s just all all all work and no play makes Jack a dull boy at written a 1,000,000 different ways. And then, like in prose and then, like in straight lines and stuff and she’s like, Who? Shit? And then and then he starts coming at her and she’s got the bat and she’s backing up snaking her way through that room, and she’s like, I don’t know, I’m just really confused. I mean, if you if you if you want someone this acting menacing and someone that’s acting terrified, you will be completely satisfied with this movie. But, um, other than mad like Yeah, yeah, yeah, It’s a standard Q Brick. Uh, right tick. And for me, I do love some Kubrick movie is like, I’m not a huge fan where I’m just all upon Kubrick stick for everything. But what your favorite one of my favorite ones are Clockwork orange. Okay, Like, fabulous. And his coldness works in that one. Yeah. Like, absolutely works. Um and then, um, full metal jacket. Oh, Forman. Oh, yeah, Absolutely. But I mean, I consider that, like to movies like the first, the first movie of full metal jackets, like 11 out of 10. What about you, Aaron? Do you dare You fan of any any Q brick films? I’ve only seen the shining in 2001. And what do you think about 2001? I thought it was great. I really liked it. Well, I read the book too, so I understood what’s happening. And then I got this very nice visual presentations. Not already read. Was that Arthur C. Clarke? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I think that my reaction to 2001 was very similar to my reaction of the shining ones like it’s slow and boring and I don’t understand, Like what the story is supposed to be telling right now. You know, stuff happens. Yeah, and I see stuff happening and it looks great, but I don’t know why I should care. Like my family was big were big cubic fans, and so and they were big, Um, symphony fans like symphonic music like Old Classic And so So by virtue of the fact that, like a lot of his movies, had some amazing tracks, we just end up watching them a lot. And so 2001 was like the most like, another very formative movie for me, where I was like Oh my God, what is this? What’s interesting? Kubrick is very particular about everything, like use super particular, and I don’t know if you know this, But he commissioned a composer to write an original soundtrack for 2001 which does exist like completely new music, and what he did was, he said, the film to he like included tracks. I want the the score to sound like these pieces and So he includes a blue Danube he includes, like all the music that’s in the movie now and gives it to the composer composer it kills. It kills it like there’s a full score and Kubrick listens to it. He’s like, I think I like the blue Dan. I think I just like the songs that I picked better and so use that. But you can Sometimes you see concerts of the actual score that was wow created from the shining So cool. Yeah, if you haven’t watched room to 37 that the Yeah, the 3 to 37 is basically, like the equivalent of 9 11 truthers talking about their obsession with the Shining. Yeah, like Kubrick has a master plan where Look at these cans in the back and see the cans of Cal You meant in the background with the Indian head on it that the Native American head on Yeah, that stands for Western expansion. Literally. That’s literally like something that said in that I watched about, like, 30 minutes and then I’m like, Okay, I get like, these people are crazy. It’s like three hours worth of talk about a two and 1\/2 hour movie. Yeah. Um, the music. We were gonna talk about the music. The music in the Shining is a huge part of the impact of the movie. Great. One of the reasons why a lot of the moments work without the music and without the score, this movie would not be talked about. And I should say, I will. You have mentioned. But when this came out, it was a critical failure. People didn’t like it, really. And I don’t think a lot of people that watch it early on liked it either. Because it was different from anything that was done before. Hugely influential now. But, I mean, it’s really interesting Thio here about movies that weren’t received well when it first was released and now is considered a masterpiece. And sometimes I agree with the original audience. I’m like, Yeah, it’s not back. Great. Yeah, yeah, I mean, but then you got silent night, Deadly night that beat out nightmare on Elm Street first week and then got pulled for being too obscene. Yeah. So, um, the both me and Aaron have music, degrees, bachelors and music, and and a lot of the composer’s that air featured on the soundtrack for The Shine in a recognizable 20th century composers, Penderecki is featured in most of the music, which is, if you think about a horror movie soundtrack, it’s gonna sound like Penderecki. And then he’s, like, legit, considered a classical composer of the 20th century. Like, um, academics and music professors like make students study his music. And it sounds like a horror soundtrack, like in your music history classes, like the string stings like the right and the weird kind of timpani sounds. And I’m so Inger Ceramic Buller, the Water Bowl or whatever it is that they hit. I’m so interested in these artists who choose to live their life in this fucking jar space. Oh, man, like you actually like you should listen to. I know you’re not a huge symphony fan, but Penderecki, there’s, ah, he did that thready, right? What was it but like, but artists like HR Geiger, who, you know, inspired did all the inspiration for alien. And in these binned and apparently Penderecki, who just lives in this audio space of terror of just like Oh my God, this is so horrifying. I know. I need to introduce you to some mid century 20th century classical music because it’s like all the Alia Tor IQ and a tonal stuff. I think that you’re all right up your alley. I love I love like Have you listen any like Scott Walker’s Like It’s So Low Career Oh my God, it’s terrifying. There’s there’s there’s pieces where it sounds where it sounds like like wet meat dripping. And it’s and what it is, is it’s him. He has a holding. What? Meet a stripping. If you haven’t seen 30th Century Man, it’s It’s a documentary about about Scott Walker. He died this year, and, uh, and he for this for the set to make this sound. He got like, this slab this half of, ah, of a pig, and he just was punching it, punching it next to a nice microphone. So one the Penderecki piece that I really like is threatening t to the victims of Hiroshima Symphony number three. That’s that’s a really good one, fits Jesus. As you can imagine, some other composers that we found there’s bar talk lickety licky like and bear Leo’s, um, the producer of the dreaded lickety split. Well, okay, so the very first thing you hear in the shining is the d s here a theme, Um, that dun dun Dun Dun Dun, Dun Dun that’s that is old that is centuries old. That theme and it’s like a chant is It’s It’s a chant, and it’s literally the day of, like, judgment. Damn, yes, Oh, it’s It’s intended to frighten the masses and into submission. And, um, like Bear Leo’s uses it to like, um, kind of evoke, like, satanic kind of dark things in his dream of the witches Sabbath. Like which, if you haven’t heard it, you you probably have heard at least part of it. But that’s like the beginning of the shining when they use the synthesized kind of low brass. Low strings combination is really effective because it’s like an organ. Sound almost sounds as if the size from like an electrical or something like that, and it’s for me. It felt like just the sound of it. The way it’s like designed makes me feel like I’m going through a tunnel like you’re sweeping across this big lake with this helicopter shot. But the sound of the like the quality of sound makes you feel you’re going through a tunnel and it feels very narrow. And then, like contrast that with seeing Dr Sleep. And when they use that theme in Dr Sleep, they’re using, um, low brat like actual low brass and low strings. Um, probably low woodwinds, too. But they they also like, filter it through like digital synthesizing whatever. But it’s. But it feels way more epic, way more expansive. And so you really feel bigger punch. You feel like there’s more at stake. There’s they’re like, there’s something bigger happened. I know I don’t Yeah, I know in the trailer, like when they played d S e r A. And it’s the symphony. You’re like, Yeah, God damn your hackles rise, you know? But you brought up in an interesting point, Aaron, which is there’s a There’s a contract, a heavy contrast going on right here in this big open space. And then and then the sound you’re for you that’s being forced upon you is is confining or constricting. That’s it, then, is that this? This contrast Ah, Kubrick threw in through the whole movie like he’d wanted you to feel uneasy so he would throw in these very contrasting things or turn things around like intentional, intentional in continuity and of where? Where, you know, Maybe he’d be riding his bike one way down the hall, and then and then you cut to another shot from behind him. But he’s writing the same way down, like the opposite way down the hall so it can kind of mess with your head a little bit well, and it’s a It’s a big hotel, too, and it feels big when they first go there. And it’s full of lively people, and everyone’s having fun. And did you know it’s timber? Lilac right here? It’s right next to you, right nearby in the theater for Dr Slave Hunting people, Theo the like. Wide shot is definitely Timberline Lodge, but then, when they get closer shots of the entrance of the hotel, it’s not. No, it’s a different interior. And then and then the interior is completely different. Interior staged sports some other hotel anyway, So what I was saying was like, the hotel is feels big in the beginning, but then, as like the it feels like the walls are kind of closing in as um, you realize what’s happening in this hotel with, like, craziness happening. And then the fear just makes the feel like the walls are closing and even the ballroom scene, like when he first walks in and he goes up to Lloyd, the bartender, Um, like it’s empty. It feels big. But then all of a sudden it’s full of people and it feels like closed in and claustrophobic. And it’s I think that’s a good point. You make about like the contracts. So a couple more points to talk about before I put this movie on Blast even more is a good conversation. Like again, I I appreciate this movie. It’s just not necessarily for my taste. Um, but the one thing that a super appreciate is the torrents family sweater game is on point. Dude, I love your sweaters. They all are just hard core sweater. Yeah, I gotta tell you, I got better. Fam. I got it, I got it. I got this sweater and I will never like there is one of a collection. It will be a collection now because a wool sweater is just comfy all the time. It’s just comfy cozy. It’s a right temp. It lets enough win through That’s enough wind through that. You’re not. You’re not drowning and in heat. It’s great. Yeah. Yeah. David’s wife gave him the dudes sweater. Yeah, from the Big Lebowski. I love it. And at first it was really hard to wear it in public. It was like, I can’t be that guy, But now I don’t give a shit. Yeah, I’m fully that guy Who will do that, do she think? And, uh, Pendleton Woolen Mills is right from the area, which is the maker of the sweater. And Yeah, man, I wish I could by some of their stuff there got wool blankets that air just world renowned. And it’s like $300 for, like, a little square. Yeah. Fun with this. Grow like a throw blanket that will cover. You know, just your legs, the factories hiring right now. I mean, maybe get an employee discount. Um, another one. Just an observation. Jack Torrance is a huge asshole. Like a separate separate from being insane. So yells it, Wendy, Don’t disturb me when I’m writing. Can’t you see that I’m working? And he chooses the most central huge area in the hotel. He’s got the choice of probably like 200 hotel rooms. Least that if they don’t have a desk, you can put a desk in there. It’s a typewriter. He doesn’t need power. Yeah, he’d just sit there. But no, he’s gotta have the gigantic central meeting room that is the hub of the entire hotel. Did he? This is This is why it doesn’t Jack Torrance in The Shining. The movie does not need alcohol to be an alcoholic. It’s so it’s so reminiscent of alcoholic behavior. It’s just it’s just like, Oh yeah, that guy’s in total debt, dipshit. Yeah. Um, okay, so this this is here’s some of my main questions, Um, and my my beast with the movie has talked about a lot of them, but to me, I wrote this down as I was watching it again. This movie has no connective tissue. Or to say it another way. The movie does a really bad job of answering why. So here’s here’s a couple questions that I have that I don’t think the movie does a great job of answering, and it’s it’s stuff that’s not unimportant, not unimportant. So things like what causes Jack to go insane. It’s not super clear in the movie. It is in the book. Right? Um what purpose did the ghost served in the hotel? To be? Spooky. Yeah. Uh, What do you mean, what purpose? What purpose? To go serve outside of a hotel. So Haman What’ll what? I mean, what was specifically what’s the connection between them and Jack going insane? Yeah, like there’s it’s like two separate things were happening once they’re in a haunted hotel. That’s creepy. And they’re ghosts. That will attack Danny, apparently. But also, Jack is going insane. Yeah, there’s no, like, explicit connection. And there is one in the original story, right? Yes. So if you listen to Kubrick and that it’s, you know internal like, then why is Danny seeing him? And why are they attacking him? Like if it’s Jack, If Jack is the evil eyes because alcoholism is genetic people who’s passed down the trade to his child, he’s just a dry alcoholic. Yeah, I don’t I don’t even think Kubrick would say It’s it’s internal either. I think he’s just not. He’s not concerned about the original character and story of the of the Shining. Um, so what’s the the other one we talk about? What’s up with Tony? Is Danny possessed? Is it Danny Subconscious? Um, the sexual stuff. What even is the shining? Yeah. What? Yeah, What is? I mean? They explained that they, like some people, shine. Some people don’t like the you know how you can read people’s mind and see the future. Well, some people can do that, and some people don’t. So I thought those enough of an explanation for the Shining just for the movie because it was just like, Oh, it’s a It’s a special thing. He’s special and he’s special talking about being special and that that works. But it also has no connection to what happens in the movie. That’s just like, Here’s what the Shining is what the movie is named after, Um, and it’s just two special guys just having a talk over some ice cream you. And if you want to know what the Shining is watched doctor sleep because it actually explains it. Yeah, I got to say, Doctor, sleep is is a like if you haven’t listened to our episode about it, we just did it and it was my favorite blockbuster of the year. I think I had kind of a unique experience because I I saw the shining on Wednesday night. And then I saw Dr Sleep on Friday night way exactly. So So like having those like, I only have 48 hours to digest the shining. And honestly, like I had seen a bunch of parodies, you know? Sure. Bits. And she hasn’t seen The Simpsons one yet. Oh, wow. I think I have, like, I think I have. But I don’t have much of an encyclopedic knowledge of The Simpsons. You’ve got an ocean in, boy, that Shin ae yours. So like having having said that like, I only maybe seen like I’d say, probably 1\/4 of the movie The Shining before I watched the whole thing because there was a lot that surprised me like about the movie that was in the movie because I and I never heard of before. Um, the like, the scene with the pediatrician. Uh huh. And, um, like, that’s, like, the best back story that the movie does. It was like that’s like, all the back story that we get. And, um, and the What was the other thing? The oh, the fact that she’s that Wendy is basically doing all the work in the hotel. Like Jack his leg. I got this job because blah, blah, blah, and I have mouths to feed blah, blah. And he’s like like, there is no, like there was no establishing shot of him doing any work, what so ever? And he’s like, It’s my contract, right? I’m like, Dude, Wendy was checking the boiler room. She’s like fixing all the food for your really keeping are really keyed on in on this. Yeah. I mean, lives because of their backs, just like his computer all day long. And then he goes out these days. Shut up here and I’m working. Don’t disturb me when I’m working. I chose the most central room in the house because I need to stretch out. I need to focus on pulling porno clips. Okay. They have to sound just like horror movies. Um, So the other questions are the sexual stuff in this movie. Like why? Why is the it’s it’s sudden they add a such an element of, like, spinning you around. It’s like Whoa, whoa, e. I mean, that was That was great. When, when, uh, Aaron saw the blowjob sequence first. That’s that’s That’s the most confusing part in the whole movie. Like, Whoa, Why is that dog given that butler a blowjob? Mommy, why is the dog on that man’s lap? That was me in 1992. You were the dog. Yeah. No, I was the one saying, Oh, uh, so you and Aaron made the point while we were watching that. That was probably a lot more shocking back in early eighties, you know, just having homosexuality on film. I guess you don’t. I mean, it could have been a woman in the No, no, it was definitely man, are you? I’m telling you that. Are you designing them? A gender? I don’t presume to know what dogs you. Even if I asked him, He is a canine can. But the I mean, that’s that shot when that happens. Like the front known evidence of fairies. Probably not, but, uh, like in 20 watching it in 2019 for the first time, I’m like, Oh, so this is like a rager, like they’re having a great party, and people were breaking off into separate rooms and goes all these ghosts, like, are still keeping the party going, you know, 50 60 years later, and Blake and then I was thinking about it like men in 1980. Just the idea of showing any homosexuality on screen would be terrifying to lots of men, especially, and that would that would just be like, Oh my gosh, you just add to the scariness of everything because homosexuality is so scary. If the Shining was shot in 2019 it just be like 22 Girl goes just way too obvious. And I would be just like two girls, one cup, way to a to Z. Yeah, it’s just way too inappropriate and over the top. Instead of like the insinuation of sexuality, it be like full blown ghost. I don’t know. People are so desensitized. Everything now like I don’t know that there’s any like, sexual thing that they could do that we shocking have toe. There’s a few I know of. A few would have to be violent, just like like the torture scene in it have to have to be like the torture scene in Dr Sleep. What about that guy? What about that guy on the Internet who freezes poop and then puts it in condoms and then uses. Now I know that exist uses it to pleasure. You’re welcome. And then, um, last two questions. Why does Dick come back? That’s not really explain. Just lunch. Especially special election with Danny. Why does Howard and come back? Yeah, Yeah. Danny shots at him with his head. Danny’s like, Ah, the trends Heller. And sitting there in his bed with his two froze porn ladies a bit above his bad and above his TV. And he’s like, Oh, shit, that little boy in trouble. And he’s like, he like, he’s the best. I love Halloran and Scatman Crothers so much in this man. He’s a shining moment in The movie is great is the funnest wonder. What? Well, I mean, I guess, Jack find us one of Jack’s crazy, uh, the less He’s just crazy. The last question is, why is Jack in that photo at the end? Yeah, so I mean, I think that implies that he was always here, like they say that. I mean, they they say that, but what has been the caretaker, right? Like what? It’s thinking like hotel adding a tally mark to the you know, like like we got another one boys, you know, like, I guess, See that that is like the the final image. And it feels like just that weird twist that’s there to be a twist but doesn’t have any sense other than be like, Yeah, well, that means something. Is that Is that mentioned at all in the book like that? He’s been there previously. Or is that just something that Kubrick at it in or that he talked? It was definitely time in. The photo is like from the twenties, so it’s not actually Jack Torrance the character. So I don’t know, maybe I’m not remembering. Maybe there is a photo with a guy that kind of looks at it. So in the book, it’s really interesting that the descent into madness is very attached to Jack’s obsession with the hotel and that he discovers the history of the hotel. He finds these documents in the basement about the history of the hotel, and it’s got a bunch of shady connections with the mob and, um, like money laundering kind of stuff. And he’s like, This is what I can write my book about, and he he reaches out to the manager of the owner of the hotel is like, I want to do my book on all the dirty laundry about the Overlook Hotel. And they’re like, um no, don’t do that. Please don’t do that. And if you do that, you will suffer consequences, Basically. And so ah, lot of his rage comes from his reaction to that to his reaction to the man basically telling him what he can’t do. And it expands out from there. And the his obsession with the hotel in the history, um, really shows the power that the hotel has over him. Um, so, yeah, that’s that’s that’s kind of missing from the movie as well. Um, but the the one part where it does kind of show the hotel as being an entity and a power of itself is the is the character of Grady the butler. When he’s talking to Jack in the bathroom and he’s he’s basically pushing Jack to be like, Well, you know, you got to do, you know, and it’s definitely the personification of the hotel itself and then the other, like a great side care home. Come on and waste your family and give you a beer. That’s right, because that that butler was greedy. But when the when the hotel owner or manager, whatever was interviewing talked about the murder, The Grady murder later. Yeah, he was the He was the caretaker. Yeah. So? So. And then when he tells Jack you’ve always been the caretaker, like, does that mean that Jack was, like, 10 years previous? He murdered and was That’s just great. He he’s just doing it. He’s just fucking with your head, all right? That was too much, too many. Um, And then the other great moment is the bartender. What’s his name? Lloyd Lloyd Lloyd. Bartenders is great. He’s got the greatest dead stare. Yeah, um, and then the That’s the other part. That kind of tells you that the hotel is has a personality, cause when he specifically says, you know, it’s on the house is basically saying like, this is the hotel giving you what you want. Your money is no good. You know, um, anything else that we want to talk about? The shining man? I, uh really Well, first of all, I don’t know. I don’t I don’t know if there’s really a maze. I don’t think there is a maze up a Timberlake? No. Um, but I would really love to find one of these mazes. And that is a like a 13 foot tall maze. It’s amazing. And it’s all No, but that would be a blast to do. First of all, And then second of all, um, I don’t know, I I love I love the more I watched this movie like. Okay, so I got I gotta admit, there is a little There’s a small not totally in substantial part of me that kind of dreads every week having tow watch another horror movie. Especially when I when I’ve already seen. But when I watched the Shining, you’ve seen it The miniseries and Part one and part 20 Anyway, so, yeah, I mean, so there’s a part of me that’s like, Mmm mmm, mmm mmm. I got to get kind of amped up to do these things. And the shining was like, I’ve seen this so many times, but I went back out and I watched it, and it was It was like I got so much more out of it is this time and so I don’t know if you haven’t seen the shining in a while. And you you are a fan. Uh, then, you know, check it out. Because And it’s a great winter movie. Yeah, it’s a good time to watch it too. Since Dr sleeps out like, watch the shining and then go see Dr Sleep. Yeah, it’s very good Companion pieces And later, the very complimentary The stories in two very different styles, but very good. And cover is my favorite director, Maybe of all time. Yeah. Yeah. Godric Coop, Coop Brack. Come blur. Okay. Um so final recommendations, final recommendations. Who should see this movie? Everyone. Yeah, you go first, everyone. Yeah. I mean, it’s not only is it, you know, a good horror movie, it’s iconic. It’s like part of the, you know, lexicon of film. Like you have to see it. Yeah, yeah, I agree. It’s It’s a must see for anyone. It’s one of Kubrick’s masterpiece is It’s one of Jack Nicholson’s absolute best performances ever. Yeah, and yeah, I mean, it’s it’s ah, fantastic filmmaking. Um, you might not. I love it, but it’s worth saying, definitely if you if you listen a horror movie, talk regularly and you want to get, like a good bead on on my opinions on, like the things that I enjoy about horror horror films. This is like a master class in it. This is so similar. Like I it’s been so interesting to do this podcast because I’ve realized so much about my own taste and how it differs from other people’s. And like I enjoyed the killing of a sacred dear so much, so much more than you. It’s because it’s It’s a cube. Rick ask movie. Yeah, that’s true. It’s interesting because we have really similar tastes as well in terms of, like, family based emotional Yeah, horror like you have that to love it. But you love this. Yeah, just as much. Justus much there and this like, um, just in books, all stories. I love them to be cold and clinical and, like, detached And really, there’s something just so mysterious about that to me that I don’t know, just scratches my itches. Okay, so go see it. Go see Dr Sleep too. On. Let’s move on to it came from social media. Yes, it came from social media to fill the world with terror to bring you one forgettable suspense. What was it? Where did it come from? For the all powerful creatures that brought from social media And what did they want? So it came from social media is ah portion of the podcast that we sometimes dedicate to going over some comments that we’ve gotten from Facebook, Twitter, instagram, wherever they’re coming in at us. And this is ah, very special came from social media because I think we need Thio, maybe make some changes to the podcast going forward. Um so Stephen Stephen M. On Facebook just recently you skipped the 1st 1 What’s this friend? And I know I’ll get to that one. So Stephen M on Facebook? I guess it’s Yeah. A couple of days ago Said Just discovered your podcast on Li. Listen to two episodes so far, but really enjoying it, particularly the witch episode. It made me want to revisit a film. I was totally underwhelmed by just one thing. Please stop burping into the mic. It’s fucking disgusting. And as I was doing brother, as I was going through wth e YouTube, there was a comment that I missed from a month ago from Isaiah and I never saw that? Yeah, he said Hot hot tip in capital letters. If you didn’t belch into the mic and slurp drinks like moronic man children, you might get some extra subscribers. I couldn’t get past two episodes on stitcher, and the APP doesn’t let me express my absolute disgust. Get your shit together. You make all horror movie fans look terrible. Do that. That person. Isaiah, you’ve got some anger issues, buddy. And you in there directionless, and you need to take him out yourself. So this is the level vitriol that this is created that he heard it. He found us on stitcher. And he he wanted to tell us so bad that he had to seek us out on another platform to leave a comment that could fully describe his discussed and then way back, going way back into olden times an April 10th Dana see on Facebook. We love you, Dana. Yeah, we love Dana, and she was the original originator of this concern on Facebook. She says, keep doing what you’re doing. Maybe with less belching Ella. Well, this is from one of your female fence. You do have them so moronic, man. Children are our reaction to this request is like some people like it, But I don’t think anyone’s ever commented that they do. Like no one likes it. Let me. Uh Well, I don’t know. They tolerate any. Think you’re someone like me? Let me think. Here. What’s what’s what was the biggest terrestrial radio show ever? Yeah, but we’re no cowards. No, no, I know, but what was it? Oh, yeah, it was Howard Stern. What did they, uh, what do they do all the time? Still, they’ve done it for 30 years. So I’m not saying I’m not saying they’re wrong, That this is their taste. They don’t enjoy it. And you know what? After after Thea. The other thing is that this is the hill that David is gonna die on. No, it’s not a hill. I’m going to die. And the other thing is, I think I think there, there, there, there may be an aspect to this. That is right. It may it may drive people away, but I mean, the other part is I mean, if you listen to comments, you’re gonna have people telling you you’re a Moran on moronic man child for providing them with a free piece of something that they don’t have to listen to you. I mean, it’s it’s Ah, it’s hard not to get your feelings hurt when you called a moronic man child, when you’re tryingto provide a free service, the people they try to put it in a lot of efforts, your silly, but I think it’s a very valid thing that I think early on it was I was more concerned about. Sounds like drinking Mike mouth sounds and like coughing sure and belching into the microphone. And I think, you know, maybe it’s time that we make an effort to class up the place and not discuss our listeners. We’re gonna put it I’m gonna officially say we’re gonna put a moratorium on belching on horror movie talk way Need to be This is this is a partnership. You can’t just you can’t just make it. You can’t just make e. I need to agree to the people. So if you disagree with this moratorium, you have to reach out on on social media and tell us like we love the belching. Do not stop the belching and you need to do you need to put up like an actual demonstration to show that it’s worth keeping because I don’t think we deserve the the privilege of belching into our listeners ears directly because we’re not quite, I don’t know. We’re really close to the quality of Howard Stern Show, but not quite there. So I think if it’s ah, perfectly rational to put a moratorium on belching on horror movie talk, we need to be more considerate and mature for audience. So now let’s play horror or porno whore porn ing. All right, horror. Porno is a game or a partner is a game where we play clips from horror movies and clips from poor nose, and it’s surprisingly hard to predict where they came from cause there’s lots of squelching sounds, screaming passion, you know, it’s really hard to suss him out. So we played this once on Ready or not, it was a really, really delight again on a chapter two. Do we? Oh, yeah, that was twice, Um anyways, so since I didn’t go to the movie last night, I had an extra $10 that I was expecting to spend on a ticket, so I decided to get a to buy some music for intro music. I feel like it deserves it. That’s a good intro. I got to say, Can we just get the 1st 5 seconds of that one more time? God damn, That’s a funky beat. Slaps fucking slap literally. Uh, so it goes without saying that if you’re if you’re sensitive to uh huh. You know, sexually explicit sounds. Or if you’re don’t have this on headphones, rear work may be May be turned off this one. But how we play leave. No, you have to participate. Um, David, can you keep score? So I will play a clip. And you have to tell me if it’s from a horror movie or a porno, Right? And extra points if you can guess the title of either. Okay, extra points, If you can guess the title. So it cz one point, if you guess correctly on the genre. And then it’s another point if you actually get the Yes, right. Okay, first clip. Are you ready? And Aaron is playing too. Yes. Here we go. Clip one. Wow. Okay, So was that a horror or porno? Erin, I say horror. What makes you say that? The the screaming, the music Yeah, Something hard to me. Okay? I don’t I don’t have a guess. It I don’t want to get any given anything away. David. I’m going to say that did sound an awful lot like a horror movie. But there was There was an inordinate amount of squelching and kind of gagging time. It’s hard it could be. Could be gagging. Could be knifes going into bodies. Yeah, yeah, sure. There’s a lot of it, no matter what. There was definitely some plunging involved. Right. Um, so I’m going to say I think I’m gonna say were is Well, yeah, Okay. I get your rational, but you’re both wrong. That is a porno. That was nightmare on Dik Street. Oh, wow. Um, look, clip number two. That seems unlikely. Okay, David Horror, porno. And once you ration out, I’m really gonna have to go. I think that’s definitely a porno movie. Yeah, that’s a partner. That was that. Sounded like a woman getting hammered. No, it sounded like a woman really, really faking that. She was enjoying hers. I mean, regardless, she was getting hammered. Yeah. I mean, see this. This just shows you how hard this game and that was actually no movie. What? Yeah, that was screamed. That was just a dream. I I honestly can’t say that I remember that part. Well, it isn’t like an opera scene. And sky was I don’t remember. It was Drew Barrymore That was seen how that was. That was Drew Barrymore. Yeah. Okay. All right, celery tied for nothing. Anybody for enough? Anybody’s game we’ve got, we’ve got six, and then a tiebreaker if we need it. But you can aren’t doing that. Great. We’ll see if we can turn it around on clip number three. All right. Horror or porno? Aaron, what do you think? Can you take this seriously for, like, five seconds? That is actually, considering We just saw squirrel that it went such That is such a normal thing for me to hear because you watch a lot of horror movies. That’s a That’s a porn. That’s got to be a porn. Okay, David. Okay, now, now, the first thing that comes to mind is porn on this one for sure, Because like I said, it comes comes to my mind no AA lot, but I e think of Aaron and I keep guessing the same than the known has a chance to pull. Right? So I’m going to go against my better judgment and say, That’s a horror movie. That’s clearly a porno. You think that’s a porno? I I do. I believe I think that same thing. But so do you have a guess on the title? Either one of you on the title for the for that? Yes. So you you’re guessing porno. So do you have a guest for the title? I wouldn’t even pretend. Okay, that I could think of something. Um, I guess that could be the bride of Chucky. Okay. All right. So David gets one point. It is a horror movie. That is from the grudge. There it is. Yeah, yeah. No. Yeah, that’s I mean, that’s the those Japanese horrors for you. Yeah. Okay. Clip for Aaron. You gotta catch up. I’m doing that to Mrs Move. Relax. Bastard led us here. Wow. All right, horror, porno, I gotta say, is definitely a horror movie. Okay, David, She said it was tearing me apart. I mean, it shows how how hard it is to choose, because I could work even. Wait. There was a lot of male voices there as well. That’s clearly a horror movie. You think that’s a heart? Be for sure. Yeah. Um, I think it may be a horror movie as well. I’m going to say, In fact, I’m gonna hazard a guess. I’m going to say that was Silent Hill. Okay, Aaron, you gotta guess for your title. Uh, no. I don’t know. No more movies. All right, um, you guys air not close. It is a porno. That was from the bear bitch project. The bear bitch product. That just seems unlikely that they’d name a porno. That but, I mean, you know what? That’s actually not true. That poor nose gets a fucking weird names, Okay? This one is an easy one. This is a total. Gimme it. So you don’t If you don’t know what this is and the title of it Like what are you doing? Okay, Theo. I mean, come on. Yeah. Aaron, I Everyone, everyone knows this let you go first on this one because I’m I’m a I’m a co host on a horror movie podcast. So this is gonna be a hole in one for me, and I feel like, Well, this is definitely a horror movie and I’m I’m pretty sure it’s psycho, but I’ve never actually seen it go. You’ve never seen Psycho never see the next one iconic score like I mean, you can hear you can hear it in that. In that clip Ri ri ri It’s, I mean, that’s as big or bigger than Jaws. You know, like the Jaws Dun Dun, Dun Dun That’s even bigger. And I’m gonna also I’m gonna go with air and say, Yeah, this is the second. This has gotta be psycho. This is how for Titch Cox Psycho? You know, it’s kind of play a trick on you guys that that score is using different places, like appeared on Psycho. And it’s also in Re Animator. He noticed that, but yeah, but I still thought you guys were to God. This is like a classic. It’s the classic adaptation of Bram Stoker’s classic ejaculate, that z you’re living that the horror movie. This is a porno. Yeah, that’s like one of the most It’s a support. Yeah, it’s one of most famous Porn O’s and Ejaculate. Yeah, like seventies. I got to see this like Debbie does. Dallas Deep Throat and Ejaculate Dracula right next to that. Have you seen Caligula? Uh, it’s you have, Uh oh, man. Wow. When did you see that? Oh, yeah. Maybe. Maybe it’s the plan, Caligula. I didn’t think about that. But ejaculate, it’s It’s actually if you watch the movie, it’s based on calculate. Wow. Sorry, guys. Real, real close. I mean, come anywhere. Where? Yet? So you still got one? I got one point in Aaron. Every man, I really thought you would have had it on psych. I thought I had it on a psycho. Okay, so, um, I will try one last time. Maybe Aaron can tie it. Okay. Oh, please only believe Thank you. Oh, wait, please. Oh, apologies. So, horror movie or porno? I got to say that it’s This is definitely I feel like I saw this yesterday. This is definitely a porno. You okay? Yeah. I didn’t need that level of Well, okay, so for the sake of because I think I’m finally figuring out this game, huh? Um, I’m going to say it’s a horror or movie. Okay. Do you have a guess? Is the to the title frozen too? Frozen to isn’t a horror movie, but Good guess it is actually a Disney property. It is hocus pocus. Oh, damn. You know, hocus pocus has I mean, that doesn’t surprise me at all. I get a point. Yeah, Yeah. Get a point. Yeah, we’re tied up. So that means we’re tight, So go ahead, Day. But hocus pocus is commonly confused, right? I mean, when you just separate out the audit with you when you have the visual owned, by the way, did anybody else get in on the pre pre order for Disney? Plus, uh, that’s a good segue way hocus pocus gun beyond there. Yeah, and good, maybe. And it comes out, comes out in two days, 70 bucks, 70 bucks gets you your subscription and like and then your grandfather didn’t know that that plants. Oh, hocus pocus. Super hard to tell whether that’s when it’s just audio, But I don’t remember that scene from the movie. I’m gonna have to watch. You have to watch again. Like Sarah Jessica Parker had a lot of interest, and I mean, you know that meddlers. Yeah, she’s a demon in the sack. I mean, uh, okay, so we need a tiebreaker. Luckily, we have this last clip. So clip number seven. Yeah. Lots of encouragements. Yeah, take it. Get it in, Get it in? Yeah, horror movie or porno? Wouldn’t it be weird to like being I mean, assuming, Like I’m sorry. You go ahead and guess it’s a porno. You think that’s a porno? Yeah, I think this is. This is pretty clearly a behind the scenes clip of a horror movie where they’re where they’re like, they’re practicing their lines and they’re getting, you know, they’re they’re they’re getting encouragement from from the other actors and actresses and like the lighting writing that you’re saying You’re saying a horror movie. I’m gonna say a horror movie? Well, no, it’s It’s a horror movie. Wouldn’t be behind the scenes. It has to be like an actual poor or partner. So your assumption doesn’t I just want to give you the benefit, Okay? That election, it’s gonna mean the actual movie. Okay, then I’m going to say this is, um I’m gonna say this is I’m going to say the ring. Um, you are correct that it’s a horror movie. Oh, so you got you got me there, But it’s actually from Poltergeist 20 Yeah. No, I don’t remember. I think still thinking about it. Do you recall which scene it’s the scene where all the ghosts are together and And there? Yeah. Fucking that. That point start. Yeah. No, Now I remember that. Okay, so David pulls ahead. David wins horror. Porno, which I get shouldn’t surprise anyone. He’s an expert at both. And, uh, thank you for playing Aaron, but you can hang your head in shame You did not know how or and or porn I think I never wanna win this game. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. All right, well, that’s our show for today. Thanks for listening. Please share the podcast with a friend. It’s pretty much the only way we can keep growing and bringing ah, higher quality show to you and, you know, take the time and effort that it in the real sacrifice that it tasted to do the research for this show. And remember to get on social media, tell us you love those belches. You know, if you want to stick around, we’re gonna put a moratorium on him. Unless there’s a public outrage about it, we’ll see. I mean, you know, it depends again. Support the podcast by clicking through the button on the banner to Amazon associates were gonna buy anything from their Check out our patri on and check out the different tiers and the exclusive content. You can get shudder. Use HMT at checkout to gets 30 a free trial. Thank you so much to all our listeners and for the feedback, even the negative feedback. We We love it. And it’s important to us to get here. We want to be better. We truly do. We We don’t want to be too salty, and we do want to change for the better. So continue reaching out to us. And thank you so much to our special guest, Aaron Hansen, for coming in and giving a unique perspective on the Shining and teaching us a little knowledge about music history as well. Hearing thank you on that is for movie talk, but by a place out place out with that horror porn. Oh, uh, soundtrack by horror Porn? Yeah.

I don’t
want to go too far into detail in the spoilers section for Doctor Sleep because
I don’t want to do a disservice to the craft of film making that this movie
features. Instead I’ll break it down into what I liked and didn’t like about
the movie. Be forewarned, this is still spoilers!

The Callbacks to The Shining

There were so many visual callbacks to The Shining
hidden in plain sight in Doctor Sleep that I couldn’t keep them all
straight. The movie starts with a flying shot similar to the iconic opening
shot of The Shining and it also recreates that same opening shot as they
approach the Overlook Hotel at the end of Doctor Sleep.

Dr. John Dalton, the man who employed Danny when he got sober,
has an office that looks exactly like Ullman’s office in The Shining.

Danny Lloyd, the kid who played the original Danny, has a
cameo during the baseball scene.

The first hospital room that Danny walks into when he finds
his gift of sending dying people off into death is 217. Room 217 is the room
that Timberline Lodge (the location used for panoramic shots of the Overlook
Hotel) changed to 237 for the original movie.

All of these and so much more. They recreated so many scenes
and so many sets from The Shining, and it all plays so well. I really
had a lot of nostalgia while watching Doctor Sleep, and it wasn’t the
cheap, easy to create kind – it was the earned kind.

The True Knot is Seriously Messed Up

As far as bad guys go, The True Knot is unassuming and
impressive. They look like normal people and act a bit like gypsies, traveling
around the country in a caravan of motorhomes and trucks, looking for their
next meal.

When we learn what The True Knot does to get their next
meal, my stomach turned. They find little kids who have the shining, and they
brutally torture them with the intent of causing as much pain and suffering as
possible. Pain and suffering in those with the shining causes the release of “steam,”
which is what The True Knot feeds on. Finally, they kill these children and eat
up what’s left of the steam.

There is a scene where they kidnap a small boy and torture
him, and it was almost unbearable for me to watch.

The Shining as a Super Power

It was hard to tell exactly what “the shining” was in the
original movie. I could tell that there was something about Danny, but it wasn’t
fully fleshed out, and it left quite a bit to the imagination. Doctor Sleep doesn’t
smack you in the face with a heavy handed description of what the shining is,
but it does show you that there are a lot of different flavors of it. It also has
enough characters with the shining for you to begin to realize that it’s
basically a superpower.

People with an affinity for flowers. People who can make
others do whatever they say. People who can read the future. People who can see
ghosts. You get it. Just like superheroes, each person shines at different
brightnesses. Some have more power, some have less.

At no point was it ever said that this was a superpower
movie. It just is. That’s confidence in the product on the part of the studio
and the creators, and I like it.

The Sound

There is a deep, bassy heartbeat and some pretty great
string music throughout that seems to cover 85% of this movie, and it kept me
wrapped up in the cocoon of this story quite nicely.

The Casting

Goddamn! I do mean, WOW! Everyone is so well cast that this
movie had no choice but to be great. Ewin McGregor has hints of Jack Nicolson
in his face. All the actors they cast to re-shoot the scenes from The
Shining were dead-on both in looks and in mannerisms – it was great.

The Story

I feel like it’s been forever since I saw a story on the big
screen that was new (to me) and was also well done. Doctor Sleep kept me
enthralled from beginning to end, and I love it for that. I would even go to
see this a second time, which almost never happens.

Farts

This movie features a lot of farts. early and often. I really felt for poor Winslow, since I can empathize sitting across from a flatulator in a confined space.

There are a lot of confusing elements in this film by design. It’s hard to say whether some elements of the story are spoilers or not, given they are so open to interpretation.

Naked Lighthouse Keeping

One element of the story is that Winslow is very interested in usurping Wake in the coveted night watch in the lens room.

Winslow peeps on Wake at different times throughout the movie. Early on he sees Wake naked and drunk at the top of the tower. Wake is seemingly in love, or at the very least, enchanted with the lighthouse light.

Later Winslow is able to catch glimpses of Wake in the tower possibly having sex with a tentacled monster.

Bad Luck to Kill a Seabird

When Winslow complains about a meddling seagull, Wake informs him that “It’s bad luck to kill a seabird”.

Winslow doesn’t take Wake’s advice and is later shown violently killing the one-eyed seagull that keeps seemingly mocking him.

After the death of the bird, things do not go well for the pair. The wind changes and the boat that was supposed to relieve them couldn’t make landfall because of the poor weather. Winslow slowly goes crazy and the lighthouse itself starts coming apart at the seams.

One interpretation is that Winslow brought a curse upon himself by killing the seagull. However, it is just as likely that his hallucinations and violence are caused by his alcoholism. The change in their fates also coincided with Winslow starting to drink (immediately to excess).

It’s up for the audience to decide.

The Ending of The Lighthouse Explained

Winslow reveals to Wake that his real name is also Thomas and that he is responsible for the death of a lumberman that he used to work with. Winslow’s murderous side is revealed at the end of the movie when he violently attacks Wake and buries him alive.

He finally ascends the lighthouse tower to see what all the fuss is about. When we looks into the light, he is blinded and falls to his death on the rocks below. The final shot of the movie shows Winslow on the rocks with his entrails being eaten by seagulls.

Eggers has stated in interviews that the death was an allusion to the myth of Prometheus, the god that defied the other gods to give men light, and was condemned to live eternity tied to a rock and have an eagle eat his liver everyday.

This episode Brought to you by Crazy Tom’s Beard Oil. With so many trendy hipsters with beards, it’s getting harder and harder for a hobo like yourself to show people that you’re not to be fucked with. Well, with crazy Thomas Beard Oil you can keep. Your beard is disheveled as 17th century sailors taint. When people see your beard with crazy times beard oil, they’ll cross to the other side of the street before they can even hear you talk about the voices. That’s crazy. Tom’s beard Oil available wherever. Two. Buck, Chuck Isolde Hello and welcome to horror movie talk and opinionated and accidentally funny horror movie review Show your panel of experts. Hosts each week are Dr Bryce Hanson, who holds a phD in spookology, and Professor David Day, the foremost expert on scare No-nos. New theatrical releases get priority, but we also review older horror movies both good and horrible. I’m break dancing. Hey, I’m David. Who are you going? Okay, David Day, David Day. Not to be mistaken for, um, little play or big say more David Gay Professor David D ad junk. I should say adjunct Professor David Day because you work professionally outside of the university. In scare. No nose, right? Yeah, I have. I’d like to, um I’d like to showcase a little bit of my super sexy voice. All right, this is for uncomfortable. So thank you for listening into horror movie talk. If your first time listener just want to tell you a couple things to get you integrated into the cult of Holder movie talk, go to our website at horror movie talk dot com. There’s three words in there that are very easy to remember because you like horror movies and we’re talking about him and there you’ll find links to all our social media were on pretty much everything. I mean, we’re even on tic tac, and we have no business being on tic tac. No, I mean well, as voyeurs. I mean, uh, God damn look at those hot children that would really prefer what What I’ve learned from tic tac. What I’ve learned, what that social media is mainly for is for theater kids that are underage, marching in place. That’s accurate. That’s sorry. A very attractive underage theater. Kids marching in place. That’s like 90% of tic tac, right? But I mean, you’re like, you’re like some some kind of like golden God, if you’re, like, older than 28 also very attractive. Yeah, it’s like a mim to be even in your 30. If you’re in your thirties on tic tac, they’ll call you a boomer. Yeah, it’s just anyway, so I check off the rails. Um, God damn, it’s hot, children. We post it every post every Wednesday, um, in the morning. So subscribe to the podcast if you like what you hear and also whether you like it or not, please leave us our rating on iTunes if you use an iPhone, and if you have any friends or relatives or stranger on the street, that has left their phone unattended, open up their apple podcasts and leave us a star rating because you don’t even have to write a review. Just star rating is not what we want. Price. I’ve been thinking about it. We really need to start appealing to listeners who run a back alley phone Resale racket. Yes, like like a like a pick pocketing racket. So, like, you know, like around the Eiffel Tower, there’s just people who just going to swipe your phone constantly. If we could get in touch with those people and just maybe sort of set up some sort of, uh, some sort of amicable thing that they give us reviews and we give them shekels. What are they looking for? Yeah, Frank’s little miniature Eiffel Towers T cell. All right, I know this madness. We’ve got a great show today. This is what happens when two men are left alone in a room for too long together. Yes. Today we’re gonna be talking about the lighthouse. We’ll start out by giving a brief review and our score for the film. We score on a scale of 1 to 10 1 being a miserable dredge when it makes you angry that you just watched it. Five being a perfectly average film that hits all the expected marks on 10. Being so good at transcends yonder bandage. I mean, you all know what one through 10 mean. After we give our score, we go into a deeper dive into what we liked and hated about the film and talk about spoilers. And then, later on, we will be doing a couple bits. Number one perennial favorite tag lines where we come up with alternate taglines for the film and then drum roll. We’re gonna announce the winner of our pumpkin carving contests are super super popular pumpkin carving. Actually, it turned out to be like there was a lot of last minute under the wire submission. Yeah, it was like the last day people were like, Fuck this shit I’m in, like, yeah, yeah, and actually, I’m gonna I’m leaving this leaving it on. I haven’t turned it up. So if within the next 20 minutes, as we’re recording not that everyone knows that we are, if someone submits, will will include them. And, I mean, it’s not so popular that we can’t review Every single pumpkin was on air, was it? Was it like, 10 or 11 pumpkin. Some, like there was 99 pumpkin, nine pumpkins. But some really impressive. Yeah. They range the gamut from total absolute abject shit to the most amazing pumpkins I’ve ever seen. So within nine is apparently that’s That’s the amount you need right to. That is a decent sample size to get a winner, right? So again, we went to the lighthouse and it was a descent into madness. Truly a descent into madness. Here is the trailer. Oh, take me. What’s a timber man want with being a wicky? Just looking around living. It’s like any man starting new on the way secrets, you know? Wait, How long have we been on this rock point? Weeks. Two days? Let me recollect. Man, That foghorn sounds like a kaiju. What, like a Godzilla type monster? Oh, yeah, it sure does. Yeah. You know, just before we go on, I am gonna have to apologize for my voice. I, uh I’m ill now. It sounds great. Sounds rough. And Hey, baby, humble rough and or tumble. Tell us about the lighthouse price. The lighthouse is in theaters right now. I’m pretty excited to talk about this movie. Yeah, this this one is a very interesting movie to talk about. Yeah, um it’s very specifically that Yeah, like that’s what this movie was made for. It is definitely a film student film. Yeah, and I mean film student in that film, students for a long time, we’re gonna be talking about this film. Oh, my God. There’s just me so many wet panties in that. So, in a sophomore film, Robert Eggers follows up The Witch with a romcom sent in Nova Scotia. William Dafoe plays an experienced sailor, and Robert Pattinson plays his young, simple protege in this Will they won’t they? Romantic drama. They fight happiness every step of the way until it finally wears them down. Finally wears them down. I spat out my teeth. Actually, the lighthouse is about to lighthouse keepers or weak ese that are stationed in remote Lighthouse. In New England, Willem Dafoe plays Thomas Wake, an elderly, salty seamen. And Robert Pattinson plays E from Winslow, a young man trying out a new career as Wake Domine ears over Winslow, forcing him to do all the hard labour of upkeep for the tattered lighthouse. He spends the coveted watch at night, basking naked in the warm glow of the lamp. Literal, yeah, basking naked. Yeah, that’s don’t worry about it. Winslow wants some of that sweet, naked, basking action, and he slowly descent into madness. So I’m glad you had fun with this. If you’re going into this film expecting another the witch, you’re going to be disappointed, Um, but disappointed that it’s not the same type of film and the witch it’s you know you won’t necessarily be disappointed in the film. No, but ifit’s a particular type of film, and it’s gonna turn off a lot of people for a lot of reasons. Yeah, for a lot of reasons in, You know, I said to you yesterday, and this holds true is you gotta like before we record You just gotta, like, scream and lose your voice because you sound just really radio right now. Beautiful. Yeah. Um, So I was disappointed that this movie wasn’t what I wanted it to be, which was another like, slow build tension horror movie. It’s not that it’s not, Ah, horror movie, and it just have slow build. Tension does have a lot attention, but it’s a different kind, right? And it’s about a different, totally different. The the build is into madness instead of into terror, right, which is a a terror in and of itself a little bit, but it is kind of specific, right, and it’s a great movie. It’s just not the same movie at all, right. This is a much more surreal and confusing film than the which, however, what this movie does share with Eggers, his first film is a meticulous, historically accurate film with a unique and striking visual style. Yeah, well, while I might not have loved this film as much as I thought I would I can’t help but have respect for Eggers is ambitious artistic vision. Um And then the other main thing is Pattinson and foe are amazing. I can’t I cannot I cannot believe how good patents in this. Yeah, they was. First of all, it’s perfect casting for both of them. Yeah, absolutely different. Defoe is obviously, like, so perfect for at this point, he’s like a perfectly ripe fruit. He’s just got he just got it down for acting. Yeah, but Pattinson blew me away. Like I was like, Oh, the guy from fucking twilight. Okay. Yeah, all right. But in particular I mean, William Dafoe. Willem Dafoe is a fantastic actor, and he couldn’t be great in anything but in particular this type of role. Oh, yeah, he is so good at I believe he’s that guy. Um they both give amazing performances. There are some really great scenes and monologues in here. General audiences are probably going to be turned off by a lot of the choices that are made in terms of narrated in terms of narrative and visual style. But film students will be creaming over this movie for years to come. I mean, it is just fascinating. And I mean, that’s what the takeaway from listening to our e aster and Robert Eggers in that a 24 podcast. The episode. They’re both huge film nerds like You just really like deep dives into history of filmmaking and, you know, lenses, 100 Eggers shots and stuff. So it comes out in this movie you can really tell in this movie. Well, almost to the point where it’s a little bit like yeah, okay, guy looking to shoot in 11 like, Yeah, I mean, it’s It’s a little that’s a little so that shooting in a 11 ratio makes it almost like on the surface. Do she? Yeah. I mean, it’s it would be very easy, And I’m sure there’s gonna be plenty of people in our horror or just General Egg. And general audiences are gonna look at this and be like, Well, this guy’s a huge, pretentious douche, right? Like this is just but also it is insulting to my sensibility. If he is that he’s way better at it than anybody else. Oh, yeah? Yeah, you know, kind of Shut up. Yes. I mean, it’s still a great movie. Is this a horror movie? Kind of. It has enough horror elements to qualify. Um, it’s way more of a horror movie than Happy Death Day to you. Oh, my God. Ah, But most of the focus is on the tension between the two main characters and the mental instability caused by seclusion and alcoholism. That being said, there are definitely some Lovecraft ian and folkloric or elements in here. So I kind of struggled with a score for this because I can recognize that it is a great, great film, but also, it’s not completely for me, right? I was There was some really great moments that I really enjoyed, but I don’t know if I’m going to be revisiting this film very much. And I know I laughed several parts and wince like it was very effective. Oh, yeah, and really beautiful. Um, but I can’t give it a 10 out of 10 like I did the witch e. I think the which is just a perfect movie. And this one I don’t know. I mean, it’s It’s just It’s so subjective. It’s a preference thing, but I give it a eight out of 10. Yeah, so I, too, have been thinking about this score. Excuse me for a while now, and Ah, and I seem to be hovering around a 72 and nine. And I know what you’re talking about. Like with the witch. Um, there’s nothing. There’s no fat on the bone. It all it’s all it’s all very wait well laid out. It’s all very intentional. But the problem is, the subject matter of this is losing your mind and so happy. And so there is a lot of nefarious, weird, extraneous baloney, right? That adds to that in ways that well, that could’ve been cut out. But could it right? Like Okay, well, now I get to see Willem Defoe kind of humping his bed in a in a in a in a take. This isn’t the spoiler section sleeping in a peeping tom sort of way. Is that necessary? Well, no. But also yes, because like, this is about two men going mad together, right? And ah, and so I think I think in If you ask me in eight months the same way. If you ask me in eight months about the house that Jack built, I think I’ll like this movie a lot more. Yeah, yeah, and it’s a good point in so because Because my expectations will have been tempered and I won’t I won’t expect another which I will have gone. Oh, that’s a movie about losing your mind. And it’s perfect at that. Yeah, and so I don’t know. I think I think I fall between eight and nine. Something like that. I’m not crazy ecstatic about it. Yeah, and that’s a taste thing, But it’s a It’s a great movie, so you gotta choose. Is it eight or nine? That’s I mean right now as as it as it stands, I’d say it’s a high eight. Okay, Yeah, see? I mean, I originally was going to give it a seven, and then I stood back and I was like Huh, It’s too good to be a seven iss. It really is that the quality of the of the craft is so impressive. Acting alone makes is so is so great yet that it has for me, it’s just Oh my God like it was so, so brilliant watching the chemistry between the phone patents and like, yeah, I mean, it’s enchanting. Yeah, it was. It was it. And it’ll stick with you in a weird sort of salty breeze kind of way. Yeah, so that’s our score. Before we get into spoilers, let’s talk about some business items. This is what we call our mid roll section. Please check out our patri on if your ah, long time listener or if you’re starting to get into the show and like it, support us directly by going to our patron, you’ll get access to special patron bonus content. 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Yeah, so yeah, again. Thanks for listening. Let’s get into school. Boilers, boilers, Spoilers. Okay, so this is a movie that you don’t necessarily have to talk about all the beats of it of the film because I still don’t really know what went on through a lot of it. There’s a couple things to hit in terms of plot, but really, I wanted to talk about it’s some of the It would be annoying in the extreme to hit it be by being Yeah, so just want to talk about some of the elements that stood out and that were really great and unique about this film. Um, first of all, the visual style is really striking right off the bat. It’s you really hard if they start out on a ship in the fog. And it’s just this gray screen with this haunting like you like he said, Like Kaiju esque, um moaning, foghorn in the distance. That’s just that kind of shakes the whole theater. Yeah, well, that would be sound. Um, but we’re talking about visual style. Oh, my apologies. Sorry. Put you on blast. So first thing that you notice is ah, the aspect ratio is 1.19 by one, which is basically square. Yeah, it looks like an instagram frame. And it’s one of those things that and it’s in black and white. So black and white square aspect ratio And even I knowing Eggers and that this is gonna be a super artistic film. And I think I even heard that the aspect ratio was gonna be that. But even I was expecting after the intro to be like and now it widens out in tow. Widescreen. It’s like, No, no, you The full time is that aspect ratio super confined and claustrophobic, which actually works really good for the subject matter. Yeah, and the and there are not a lot of any time you’re with a person in this movie, you’re close to them. It the framing is Cloris. It’s lots of close ups. Yeah, and I mean putting it in that aspect ratio is really interesting in terms of the balance of the conflict, the framing of it, of the shots. I don’t know, it’s it just has a really unique style is really evocative, Um, showing stuff in such unequal framing. You know that the one thing that does bother me about like Ma modern movie trends is this is and it’s inescapable at this point, it seems like because even the lighthouse is doing it, which is these cut These jump cut edits where you just cut back and forth between two people talking instead of having a full frame of them talking. And I understand the reasoning behind it in this moving. But in movies like Transformers or something like that, work just any blockbuster movie where you constantly have to be looking directly at the face of the person who is talking to the other person, who then it jumps to and it it cuts up the movie in this weird, like if you go back and watch Hitchcock or if you go back and watch movies from from the forties or fifties that you get these long panning shots that are that are granted, they’re probably much, much harder to capture in terms of acting, because you can just have a take. You have to have people act against each other very, very in a very convincing way, and it doesn’t lend itself to the cutting room floor very well. But I would like to see a movie that doesn’t that has these long panning shots. Yeah, it feels like older movies definitely used the two and three shot a lot more and put put people in the you know, what would he call that? They stage it a lot better toe, but it’s also the films of those older generations are also much more closely related to stage, and so they’re used to blocking for Stage two, where you know people are frame to sir, they’re they’re facing a certain way. It’s where it’s all very convenient to see him at the same spot, right, But it’s But for the viewer, it’s a continuity thing. It’s a little bit disorienting. It’s I didn’t notice that in this in this movie I mean, there’s a lot of jump cuts and stuff that that air a little giant on purpose. But I didn’t know specifically that, Um, I mean, it’s something that I watch for just because my uncle well will literally not watch anything past a certain year because he’s like It’s too. He noted that he said, he’s basically it’s just just too jarring for me and I don’t I don’t appreciate the craft as much as I do. And so now I have an eye out for it. And, ah, that’s interesting. And he’s right, you know it is. It is choppy. But anyway, so the look of this film is also affected by the technology used. They used some really, really old technology. Older lenses, older cameras really film, nerdy stuff, older film stock. The film stock was I’m not a nerd enough to actually say what the film they used was. But what I did find out about it is that it requires really high exposure, like you have to have said something like they had the light it like 20 times brighter than normal. Thio, get stuff visual, you know. So apparently, even though this film feels really dark, really 10 through a lot of it, apparently, like the thing the Via Crew would have to wear like sunglasses a lot of the time because it was so brightly lit. That’s crazy. Um, and this all gives the effect that this film is plucked out of time. Yeah, it’s there’s a shot early on of Dafoe and patents and basically looking in the frame as they’re approaching the lighthouse or their know they’re looking at the at the boat sail away beginning and it literally looks like an old West photo or like a World war documentary shot, just like Okay, guys, stand here. I just wanna I just want to get a shot of E. And it looks like two grizzled war veterans that are like, what? I got to stand here and do this shit money I got. I gotta feed them hogs, you know, like it’s the so I mean, there’s a lot of that element that all this visual style really evokes. Yeah, and as in right following that as the boat as they’re watching the boat slip away into the fog. It feels like a miniature Feels like they’re using a miniature boat. Then they Maybe because it slips off into like this What feels like a miniature set? Yeah, and missed. It kind of just disappears into the mist. Um, okay, let’s Now, let’s talk about the sound design of the movie, which is also fantastic. Um, like you said, What were you gonna say about the foghorn? Oh, it was just It was rattling. And it was, you know, it was, um Yeah. Okay, so if you’re going to if you’re going to live on top of the foghorn and there’s fog around, it’s going to be pervasive to the extreme. I mean, the sound is just going to be all encompassing. And it felt that way in the theater. It felt it felt like, uh, oppressive. It was this, um Oh, it was like a war siren and it Ah, it was loud and deep and long and it didn’t stop. It felt it felt a little Tetsuo the Iron Man e at the start of this movie, when he’s like in the, uh, in the coal room, you know? Yeah. And the result this machinery around him. It felt very claustrophobic and loud. Yeah, so the that sound. They used recordings of period accurate foghorns. Apparently, the sound designer on this film went to this guy on YouTube that makes YouTube videos, of course, maintaining foghorn landlord about period foghorns. I think I’ve actually seen some of the videos which are really soothing, like it just shows him, like oiling and maintaining these old foghorns, and you see it winding up and slowly, like the machinery’s like taking away, and then it slowly winds up. Ah, you know, it’s really cool anyway, So they took the, like, the period accurate foghorn sounds, and they manipulated them to be more ominous, memorable and unique to the film. It really is a unique sound and very like menacing. Yeah, and the in the sound of the ocean. And the weather is always in the background and always, always kind of washing over you and the music is there, but it’s pretty sparse. It doesn’t get in the way. Um, Eggers talked about just what he wanted with the film. He didn’t want a lot of strings. He didn’t want a lot of, um, you know, orchestrations a lot of wins, Um, mentioned like Alia torque music, which is kind of random chance music chanting No chance. What’s chance? Like roll of the dice Chance I don’t I still don’t know what you’re talking about. Probability. Oh, chance. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Um, So I thought you were saying C h a N t s. And like explaining that dice were an instrument. Bryce, are you insane? The production design? Same. Same with, uh, his previous movie, the which is really impressive. Yeah, just period accurate. They look fantastic. They built an actual life sized working lighthouse from scratch in Nova Scotia. Are you serious? Yeah. So they didn’t They didn’t build all the interiors and stuff, but the the exterior, it was all built up life size, but it is working because they had a period appropriate lighthouse lens created for the film. It’s like, Wow, that’s really cool. And when Robert Eggers talks about the budget is like, yeah, I mean, it was kind of a moderate budget, but I can’t even sometimes I’m I just have to stand back and realize and filmmaking. It’s really expensive. Can you imagine just going to a period lighthouse Lens creator being like, this is the specific dimensions and this is what we’re going for. And they’re like, OK, yeah, well, well, that guy goes home to his wife and he’s like, So well, Ah, film studio approached me and asked me to craft them 1\/2 $1,000,000 light house deal. So, yeah, they really built it. You know, it’s built out of, like, plywood and and apparently, like some kind of printed tarp or whatever, but it looked great. Apparently, the the town in Nova Scotia that could see the lighthouse really wanted to keep it because it looked so cool. But it was gonna fall apart anyway, so they had to tear it down. That’s crazy. Yeah, And then they’re the interiors, though, were shot on a soundstage. A lot of the weather was just practical, like, I mean, not not practical. It was like, literally, that was the weather that was there. I think some of the more extreme ones, like when the wind and rain blows through the wall, you know? Yeah, like, basically destroys the room. That’s probably done on a sound stage. But the exteriors, I don’t think they had to pump in rain. That was really happening. The ocean. I’m sure they were able to shoot the ocean. I was a harsh mistress. Eso it just looks really great. Feel there’s a lot of care and attention given to the look of this film and also speaking of period, appropriate all the dialogue, just like the which was taken from period sources taken from Melville. And it was the other author, another like sailor author and then, like a, I think a nonfiction er or someone like taking interviews from sailors back then and so there’s a lot of words that you’re not used to like Wiki. It would. It would definitely help. Um, this movie, I think, if particularly if Dafoe was subtitled, yeah, because he I mean, he goes hard on on being like, Accurate and e. I mean, he accomplishes like, you know, that old Irishman sound where you’re just like, What the fuck did you say is I like you brought from front and he’s like, is like, It’s like, God damn, I can’t understand a fucking word that you’re saying for a friend. Yeah. I mean, it’s not so bad that you won’t completely understand them and a lot of that old sailor talk like you’ve seen from, you know, parodies of sailors from from that time. Um, but definitely a lot of words that you’re not used to, and a lot of phrases that feel very, you know, real to the time period. So the acting is the standout part. I mean, that’s That’s the one thing like the look and the production and the sound are all amazing. But all of that is completely eclipsed by the performances of the phone. Pattinson. Yeah, it’s and Defoe has I mean he Okay, so obviously the foe is one of those guys who every time you see Amigo, that’s Willem Dafoe. At this point, I kind of like Steve Buscemi or his voice is really distinctive. And his voice is really he’s got. He’s able to have a lot of different colors in his voice, but definitely like the low growl is like his. His a wheelhouse. Yeah, and and so with that being said, it’s as a super recognizable actor I am that makes your job a lot harder, in my opinion, because now you gotta fade into into your character and it’s it’s all it’s made all the more difficult by the fact that everybody knows what you look and sound like. And they go, that’s who you are. But But he did it, man. He disappeared into this role. He is in this. He’s a stinky old, salty bastard who is just ah, his only love is the sea. And, um, man, just a just a fabulous performance. Yeah, I mean, he’s fantastic. And you would expect, like, Okay, this is perfect for Willem Dafoe, and he’s gonna just rocket. And then you kind of expect Lee. I mean, I haven’t seen Robert patents, and I’m a lot of movies. No, I know he’s a better actor than to The Twilight Series would give you the impression, but he was really amazing. Crushed it like, really, he is the He is leading the movie with his performance, a lot of rain. She’s starts out. The film is a really quiet spoken character and really elicits a lot of empathy from the viewer. You’re like, Oh, man, this poor guy like it’s has to deal with this old crusty sailor and it’s kind of unjust, and you’re really, like getting behind him like, yeah, I’m like I’m on board with with, um What’s his name? Uh, went Winslow Elias. Elijah? No. Uh, l l m Allen from e from Winslow, Calum. And ah. And then he just slowly kind of kind of loses you devolves into evolves into, like, to where it’s like, Well, wait a minute. He’s kind of He’s kind of being selfish here is kind of being childish about this. Maybe is not as mature. Yeah, he’s a person now and then. And then it goes into like, Oh, well, that’s Oh, this this guy is making some real bad choices. Yeah, and, ah, it goes real hard into the paint. Yeah, he devolves into a flawed person instead of, you know, basically a ah ah, beating a whipping boy Lots of moments in between. Between ah, being a really empathetic character and and protagonist to like, Oh, this guy’s the villain. Kind of Yeah, yeah, but is he like that’s that’s That’s the coolest part of this movie, is is the movie is essentially gas lighting the audience right? Um, the whole time and I love it. I love that. If it does it, it manages to to mess with you the whole way through and make you question everything that’s going on. Yeah, and it’s not. See, it’s not as obvious as a movie like Memento or right or ah, what’s the other one? That this movie is a lot like What’s that? Leo DiCaprio, Martin Scorsese Island Shutter Island? Um, like they’re more obvious ways to, like right to trick the viewer and to show like, Hey, this isn’t what you thought it was right? And this is much more plane with colors like that that that was one thing that I wrote down that even those is a black and white film. This is a very it deals with colors in terms of thematic material and just the the subject matter and how it’s house approached. It’s like a lot of different. Well, it does. It does what I prefer a movie like this does instead of instead of Okay. So it was a great example that you bring up Memento or Shutter Island. So these these movies have truths at the end of them, right? They have absolute truths that they go. No, here’s the answer here. Here’s what actually is really going on, and this movie does not do that, it leaves it fairly. La Billy. It’s like I Which part of that was actually which part of that was actually riel? There are parts that you can pretty easily deduce. That’s probably was him going mad. But there’s plenty of spots where it’s like I don’t I don’t I still don’t know, like, and he leaves it to you to just be like, This is madness, man. Yeah, you’re going. You’re descending with them. It really feels. Feels like an experience. Yeah, days. So the the uncertainty brought in is okay. How much of this is alcoholism vs insanity or what’s the interplay between that? How much of the events are actually supernatural vs, like, hallucinations and madness? Yeah, like that’s names Li like, how much of it is a dream? Yeah, And how much of it is? Is Winslow going mad versus wake fucking with him, right? Like it’s all and you’re never liked all that stuff you’re never given. Never get really straight answer. And like the whole time is it seems as though Wake is a puppeteer and is and is trying to drive this this boy mad. But he’s pretty crazy. Yeah, it comes down to its an unreliable narrator is It’s very much like American Psycho is that you don’t It’s never tipped off whether it’s really eso eso the stuff that happens where Wake says something that completely contradicts what you just saw. Just out with your eyes. And he’s saying, Like So for example, there’s a great scene. Very Ah, the shining esque Uh, you know, actually, this movie, uh, I didn’t write it down, but this movie is a lot like the shining. Yeah, you’re absolutely right. The the actual like book storyline of it cause the Shining is all about alcoholism. Yeah, like the actual source material. And that’s not as clear in the Kubrick movie to me upon first viewing, but it’s really about isolation and alcoholism. And that’s this movie. Yeah, it’s absolutely and ah, so it has this great scene where we see Pattinson chasing after Defoe. No, we see Defoe chasing after Pattinson with an axe like a literal axe murderer in Chase, and they get back to the interior of the lighthouse and they’re talking about it and then wake our Defoe tells Pattinson, was like, you’re going crazy. You just chase me down with an axe. Yeah, and you’re like, Well, wait, the flat the fuck. So So you have your left a question? Did what I see is that not what actually happened was that in Winslow’s head four is wake fucking with Winslow by telling them something opposite happened. And since he’s drunk, he can’t tell the difference. There’s an added element of of the audience being fucked with Yulia. Whoa! Very disorienting. Yeah, it’s disorienting in. You’re just just messing with your head because you go Wait, What? That’s no, wait. What rank and then is such an unreliable narrator because they’re both pretty drunk. I mean, Wake is less drunker towards the 2nd 3rd of the movie like so it’s It’s like, Ah, if it’s through the eyes of Winslow, it’s not reliable. But also if through the eyes awake, it’s not reliable either. You don’t know Wake is lying. Winslow is maybe going crazy. Yeah, Or maybe it is. Maybe he’s not lying for me. He’s not lying. Maybe Winslow is just misinterpreting it, or it’s through his crazy hallucination or something. So you have lots of uncertainty in this one. Um, we went and saw this with Kevin. Um, Kevin wasn’t able to make it to their recording today. I don’t know if he’ll ever be able to make it. I hope he does. Does the audience know who Kevin is? We’ve talked about Kevin once or twice before. Kevin is Ah, long time friend of mine since first grade. Yeah. Um, and he’s we nerd out about film all the time, But he sent me a couple e mails followed up with last night, and I wanted to read some of his comments. Um, first of all, he says on a theme, Hold that one for later. Hey, says, by the way, Thomas Wake is such a fucking fantastic name for an old salty lighthouse keeper, Which is true, Kevin really nerds out of names. And if you ever want to come up with a name for a character in a movie, Kevin, like, is great at coming up with the ridiculous names. Okay, Um, just f y i and he says and again Robert Pattinson. I don’t know if you’re planning on talking about this on the podcast, but I would personally dedicate a whole segment in it. The guy was so stiff in the Twilight Films that he resembled Frankenstein’s monster trying to portray Dracula and has been reeling off one amazing performance after another. As of late, I never saw it coming. Yeah, he’s really impressive in this. Yeah, it’s hard. Okay, so, like, this is such a weird thing. Like it’s so snobby to toe Look at an actor and okay, so my my reaction is there could be good good actors in in what I call Twilight, but there are. But also I don’t like. I particularly don’t like Kristen Stewart. Uh, I think she’s bad. And so I just now there’s this thing that my mind does where it’s like, Oh, you’re associated with Kristen Stewart. Sorry and and and Twilight is hit with, like a triple dose of that right. It’s also a twilight, and there’s Kristen Stewart, and you play it super stiff and your heartthrob like it’s just too much. It’s too much for you to be good in my eyes, and then you come out and you do like an amazing job, and I’m like you’ve overcome my bar when surpassed it. So much so that now I have to stand back and go boy. I’m kind of a dick. Yeah, and also, it turns it into Okay, well, now I got to see what else he’s in, right. Um, it’s interesting the transition of teenage heartthrobs, especially the male version of it, that they It’s hard for them to overcome that I’m sure it’s harder for for women to overcome that. But really, if you think about like Zac Effron or Robert Pattinson, they’re both actually really great actors, like they’re they’re able to give really great performances, but they have to overcome a lot of that like womb. And we’ll leave. Do I get to see his and and for good reason to Zac Effron is a fucking looker. You have a person. Why would I would fuck That is stunning to look at, right? It’s and I mean, there’s no way. If if I were to cash Zac Effron in a in 1\/17 century period piece, I’d have him take a shirt off at some point. Probably his pants, too, because Jesus, front on that on that note, like even Robert Pattinson to Robert Pattinson or, um uh, McConaughey like he’s he’s so yeah, he’s so like colored by his abs. Yeah, and not wearing a shirt that you don’t realize that he’s a fantastic actor. Yeah, all all of them Stunt, like in Pattinson in this lake. Thank God they had him take off his shirt because at some point he took off his shirt like Jesus Christ, that man is chiseled. Oh, man. Well, yeah. Apparently they’re gonna show a lot more of Robert Pence and Root. I heard that there was a shot in the film that was cut. Um was demanded to be cut by the film studio. I think Robert Eggers wanted to have a shot of the lighthouse, um, emulating an erect Penis and then flash cut to an actual erect Penis. Oh, um, owned by stunt Robert Robert Pattinson’s character. So I don’t I don’t know. If it were, that will bring out the stunt cock. I mean, that’s that’s a real tragedy. If it was actually Robert Pattinson’s Kaka that we that we aren’t allowed to see here. Well, that just means you gotta wait for the blue ray. Um hey, you know, ball Ray, I would really like to talk about the smell in this movie star. One of the parts. One of the main element to this movie is the farts. This is great. Um mm. Yeah. Willem Dafoe. Basically, our introduction to him as the characters is him. Pass, pass, pass, pass theme Really big rips it. Sze pervasive and it works Every time I laughed probably every time every day because it is just a old man type. I don’t give a fuck farting and you just see patents and reaction to it. And, you know, I really felt I felt very akin to to that man because it’s basically like what I experienced every day in a podcast. You recording? Yeah. Realizing you’re stuck with a fart er is a hard thing to come to turn through. It’s like, Oh, this guy just doesn’t do my wife my poor wife, like last night and the night before, even like Like, you take a walk out of out of our bedroom in the morning, you know, for five minutes and then come back in and it’s like, Oh, my God, I’m no longer Akeelah mated. 00 it smells so bad. She’s like you were just hot boxing me all nightly. I had some beers at the movie. It made me gassy. Um, yeah, yeah, it was It was gross, but But this dude stuck with a fart er for seven months or no, maybe a month. I think the original. The original stay for their watch was four weeks, it says. And then they said that was what I they missed the boat. And then it’s or the boat doesn’t come because of a storm. We don’t know. It’s undefined on how long this actually takes place, but they go through all of their supplies and they have toe unburied the the emergent emergency store rations, which is just alcohol, apparently like we don’t need like any pickled eggs or anything. Let’s just let’s just give them vodka like a giant box of vodka. Well, I mean it it is. It’s it’s truly is the most important part because when you don’t have potable water, you you need calories and you need you need to be able to drink insult that this is a really This is why sailors were drunk all the time is because they did. They could not store enough potable water and s o and they like to drink, So it worked out very well because one has calories. Yeah. So, um yeah, there’s so much to talk about in this movie. We way e beauty like so this movie like Okay, so they get to the lighthouse and and and quickly, it’s it’s the hierarchy is established. A foe is like, Hey, you’re the bitch. Go do the bitch things. I’m going to take the cool. I’m He’s like, I’m cool, man. Hot shit over here. And I’m going to do the cool man hot shit stuff, which is I’m a sin in the lighthouse at night. And look at the the lighthouse inside the with the with the light and ah, but then almost immediately, it’s like, Whoa, this is fucking weird because his first shift, he’s he gets drunk off his ass and he goes and sits up with the lighthouse, like in the light house naked. And I mean haggard, like, just blitzed out of his mind. One eye is almost close, and he’s sitting there just like cheers ing with the lighthouse as though it is a person that he is in love with very much right. And he’s like to ye e beauty and, uh like what the fuck is going on? Because he’s like touching himself. Kind of. Yeah, Robert Pattinson’s character climbs up the lighthouse to kind of see what’s going on. And Cem come comes down like some come drops past him is like, Whoa, yeah, come Well, there’s the 1st 1 It just looks like the first time you see the fellow up there. Um, he is naked and he is really drunk. And there’s something going on between him and the light, but you don’t know. And then later I think before, yes, before, um, the madness really starts or before, like the out before. Ah, before points starts, drinking starts drinking. Yeah, he goes up there and there’s like you can spot like a tentacle in the corner, something someone’s fucking similarly, some fast moving tentacles. And there’s like, Come or tentacle juice dripping down. And it’s like what is going on? So and again, this is before he started drinking. So is it in his mind? And this is really happening? This is what I love the most. This is my favorite move that a movie can do. It’s not like you don’t ever get to know it’s just What the fuck was that? I love it. Yeah. So the main point is, is Wenzel doesn’t drink, He wants to live by the books. And he’s like, citing the lighthouse Keeper’s Manual. And and wake is trying to get him to, you know, be a little looser and be more, you know, fun and talk to him. Yeah, I’m stuck here for a long time with you. Can you please hold up your end of this social bargain? Yeah. And it’s not until they missed the boat. Is that the last day? Um, there last night, patents and finally breaks down and takes a drink. And they get roaring drunk immediately, like they are just completely blasted. And then the next morning, when they go out and wait for the boat, the boat never comes. So from then on, though, like Winslow does not go back to sober living, he is 100% into the paint with drinking. Yeah, and there’s some there. Some Ah, Woody Woody call some symbolic imagery and some symbolic shit going on in this movie as well with seagulls and burger seabirds. Yeah, that’s don’t kill a sea bird. Yeah, I guess before that point, kind of the the main turning point of the movie. It’s a bold fucking Siegel that they have the hefty Siegel’s and 11 night Siegel, in particular kind of is really annoying and mocking Pattinson’s character and Thomas Wake Dafoe’s character makes it a big point. Two. Don’t fuck with Siegel’s, he says It’s bad luck to kill Seabird because there it’s even says in the trailer there. How’s the souls of sailors passed? And then, of course, what happens? He murders the fuck out of Siegel. He kills that thing shitless. Yeah, he really just grabbed that Siegel and rams it into the side of a rock like over and over and over and over again on. And that’s when the turning point is, that’s when the wind changes. And when they missed the boat and then all of a sudden it’s like a really deep dive into madness. And that’s when a lot of the kind of supernatural or horror elements kind of start coming in. Winslow spots a mermaid. Yeah, it kind of goes full Jumanji it. After that, it’s like it’s like just the place starts coming down around them because this storm just won’t let up, right? There’s some fucking There’s some animals coming out of the sea looking to fuck like it’s weird. You get a really good. I mean, we don’t get to see it Pattinson’s dick, but you get a really good shot of some mermaid puss. Yeah, it’s like a screen flash of like, the most vaginal thing I can think of which it was just a flash. Wasn’t like a long shot of a vagina. I can see it right now, but yeah, I can too. So they talked about how they came up with that. They based it on the shark vaginas. Apparently they tried to make a real, real vaginal home. Thio add that element of Yeah, it was a talking point of a flower, you know, it was like woo. Yeah, that’s the sound booth. They apparently historically, mermaids had split tails like on the Starbucks Cup. You know, because part of the big part of the reason for the mythology around mermaids is that you got horny semen and they want to fuck something like it would be easier if there’s, you know, setting something up there. Yeah, And then, of course, in the Victorian era, they put the tail back together where there’s no vagina. So you’re like, Well, why am I attracted to this? What? Well, I mean, I guess you know it Got handing them out Dolphins d stuff. Um, you know, uh, the horn in this is a big part of this movie. Oh, yeah. A big, huge part. Yeah. And it’s it’s almost analogue Ori of, like, situational homosexuality. Yes. Yeah. There’s a huge element of, like, just all of a sudden you’re like, are things going? But is that what’s gonna isn’t about to get his butt stinky in here? Yeah. And, ah, Like I said, it’s a joke. But really, there is an element of will. They won’t think in this movie. Yeah, absolutely. There is. And it’s understandable to you, like I mean, Okay, so ah, buddy of mine. One of our one of our patron members, Adrian was telling I was he was talking to him this week and he said, um, you know what are you reviewing its in the lighthouse? And he said, Oh, you know, So he just he just hiked a a trail, um called the Westcoast Trail and It’s in a Victoria Island, um, in British Columbia there and lots of lighthouses along the way. And ah, and lighthouses are still ah, thing you know, it’s not. It’s they’re not gone. There’s there are still people who inhabit them as well, and which is kind of crazy because everything’s got GPS. Now, why would you need a light to show you where the shortest? Well, because because not everything is a giant commercial vessel. And and, um And there is a service that the government needs to provide, too, to make sure that people are safe. And part of that is Coast Guard. On the other part is light houses. And and so these people who in hat he was telling me, these people who inhabit these lighthouses, you know, they could they go out there for seven month shifts, seven month shifts. Where there alone? Yeah, for seven months, they get, they get rat, you know, they get rations brought to them and books and stuff, but they’re essentially alone in a lighthouse in the middle of the ocean for a long time. And, uh and I think I would like, do something like that. Yeah, but I mean, if I didn’t have a family. Well, maybe because but but yeah, I mean, it’s It’s one of these things where it’s like, how How much would you say you masturbate in those seven months? Seven months worth of masturbation? Straight like a I don’t know. It’s just It’s one of those things where it’s like, Yeah, I mean, it would be on if there was another person there. Well, who knows? I mean, I mean, the rations would have to be all right. So we need, you know, three squares a day. We need probably like enough books to read one a day. And then you’d also need to, like, ship in an entire industrial barrel of lube. Yeah. And lotion and lotion. Just I mean, that salty sea air is not kind to your skin. No. Yeah. You’re going to get real chapped hands, and that’s not gonna be you’re gonna come out of there looking like a 75 year old man, and your dick’s gonna look like it’s 14. Yeah, you do, man, if you had, like, a one of those Ah, Woody column, Flashlight like the Yeah, flashlight. Like a pushy sleeve. That thing would just be sleep, just like melted. By the time you’re halfway through your stint, I need another pussy slave. Be ragged. Give me one of them. But sleeves, I’ll tell you what they need to make one of those mermaid pussy sleeves and then Okay, well, that’s a drop pussy. All right. And then, um, yeah, slow to send a madness. And then, you know, at this point, there’s not really a lot to talk about in terms of what happens. But the major spoiler is Doesn’t end up well, they both die. Um, I just wanted to touch briefly on my favorite scenes. Like, I think the best things in the movie if we haven’t talked about him already. Um, there’s a great scene where Winslow criticizes wakes lobster like it’s the breaking point. He’s like, You know what? Fuck you. Fuck you, old man. And you’re cooking sucks. And then and then Wake Dafoe’s character goes on this impressively long and elaborate ranting tirade. You know, just it felt like a Shakespearean lights. Feelings are hurt. He’s feeling to hurt. He’s like, don’t calling upon the powers of Poseidon and and don’t let me lob stirred her sing them and and like calling down the the supernatural elements of the sea to destroy Winslow for not liking this lobster on then at the end wins those like I like your lobster. All right. I like your laughter. It’s all right. That’s a fantastic scene. And I wish I could pull that for for this episode, but that’s that’s worth price of admission there. Um, the other main important scene is E from Oh, yeah, this important scene that David stepped out to pee. I turned to Kevin. Kevin has a notoriously small bladder moving like he is really like peeing all the time. I turn on said, I finally found someone that has a smaller bladder than you. That’s not fair, even remotely. I had a beer before I got there. 22 ounces, huh? And then I had 44 ounces before I before I went pee in the theater, huh? That’s 66 ounces. I mean, it’s not that you weren’t drinking anything. It’s not that I have a small bladder. It’s that I drink and you don’t. Yeah, but I feel like if you pee right before a movie, you could still hold it for two hours. 66 ounces. Yeah, but it’s not old leaking down there, though. I’ll tell you what, let’s have a contest. You and may well, go toe to toe water for water. All right. And, uh, we’ll see who lasts. All right. Anyways, David, step out at least three times from the theater. No, I stepped out to time. All right, Well, you think you know, actually, I didn’t I didn’t. I only stepped out the one time the first time I got up, walked over to the side and stood there and watched the movie. And then I was like, I can’t leave. And I sat back down. I never I never left the movie theater more than the one time when the only way from admitted well, he missed the most important thing in terms of the drama. So Hee from admits to murder. Um, back when he was a logger, he murdered a a coworker that annoyed him. And well, basically, the coworker felony did nothing to save him. And then he took on his name. So his name isn’t actually from wins. Oh, but is also Thomas Thomas, something I can’t remember and Ah, and that’s followed by one of the best lines that’s repeated over and over again. Why did you spill your beans? Why did you spill your beings? Why’d you tell me? And, ah, another great scene is is after Wake is well, actually, as weight has murdered, he’s being buried. So they fight and awake is basically like tattered. And, ah, he’s let out like a dog. See, this is weird where it’s like is this really happening? I was so surreal and weird. And so Defoe’s characters put in this pit and Pattinson is burying them and he’s like, Wake is talking to him and like having a monologue as he’s getting buried. It’s really striking and really cool scene. Um, that one will stick with me. Um, one of the most. This is like the scariest part of the film. For me, just from the visuals was really kind of frightening was when Winslow actually makes it up into the lighthouse and he looks into the light. I don’t know if you thought this was a school as I did, but I did It got super super overexposed. He was screaming, and it just looked like I mean it was could make really good creepypasta just the image of kind of burnt out black and the super like sound did it for me was it was it was like this again, like the sound was overexposed. And yes, it was like shrieking, super, super distorted. And it was what we call it’s not just over exposed. It’s like trying to think of what that setting would be. The contrast like Super super contrast. Yeah, it is what it is in black and white. So it looks really crazy. Yeah. And then Winslow um jumps out or falls out of the lighthouse, I guess onto the rocks. And the final like image of the film is Winslow on the rocks with his guts being eaten out by Bye Siegel’s Yeah, which is very, um, much a callback to the myth of Prometheus. So Prometheus is Ah, great God that gave fire to man gave fired a man against the gods wishes And then his punishment was He was lashed to a rock and his his innards were eaten by an eagle every day. Yes, that’s right. And he is immortal. He was supposed to push the rock up a hill every day. Know that, Cece Cece afis Now he was. He’s just chained to the side of a mountain, basically in a eagle, came and hate his guts neat every day, but he’d never die. So it’s not a good ending. Um, so, yeah, that’s the oh, there’s the other thing that Kevin said that I wanted to read thematically said another thing because we talked about generational stuff on the car ride home, you hike millennials versus boomers and all that stuff, he said, comes that. Actually, another thing I was gonna mention, but we moved away from it in the conversation. Forgot was when we got to the whole generation thing. The movie, the lighthouse, I thought kind of played on that theme with Wake and The Older Keeper with Wake is the older keeper of the Light and Winslow, the younger one, wanting to wrestle control away from Wake, that’s a good point and get the light for himself and all the stuff with Winslow finding Wakes log with all the criticisms reminding them of the generational lampooning that goes on. Yeah, and then there’s the obviously ah, lot of sea God mythology and stuff um it would be interesting. Something interesting to read into about what the characters were meant to represent. Ah, but yeah, the stuff around the Guardian and the younger seeker. So, uh, just the whole idea of the power interplay between the older and younger and and, Ah, yeah, that was kind of Ah, there might be some meta commentary in in this movie around Yeah, generations and how they view themselves. Yeah, you guys should Ah, if you’re not a patriot, remember, You guys should subscribe for the after pot, which is another podcast that we run for the Patriot members. And today I will be talking about a little bit about generation. Next in the author, Bret Easton Ellis in his book Less Than Zero and ah, kind of Generation X, The forgotten Jen. So So do that. Because it’s gonna be interesting, because it’s a It’s a fucking disturbing book. A super disturbing book. So if you guys want access to a whole nother podcast that we d’oh, check out our patri on me, I think it’s the $5 tear. Get you access to that check. So this this is a really great movie. Um, again not like on my top 10 or anything but super interesting of something that I’m going to think about for a long time. Um, who would you recommend to see this movie, or would you recommend people see this? Oh, yeah. Absolutely. I would, um, Look, if you appreciate, if you appreciate the craft, um or a Well, like a clearly well honed craft towards filmmaking, this is This is just You just can’t Can’t do much better than this. It would be criminal if this did not hit the award circuit given, given the award circuits love of this kind of stuff. Um, I would be very surprised if it didn’t You win a lot of awards, but but yeah, it’s gonna be a long year after years. Yeah. I mean, I also popular show I’m pretty pretty over the academy working, but all awards air kind of silly. And this will be a weird thing that both of them are lead actors. So I wonder it’ll be weird if one of them gets, um, supporting actor and one of them gets lead actor. Yeah, because they’re both like it’s so even. Yeah, um but I guess you could say Dafoe’s character is deck technically supporting actor. Yes. Um, and Befo already had got his. He got best best actor last year. Yeah, so I mean, there they deserve awards, if you care about that. Yeah, I’d also say this isn’t a movie for everyone, but it’s if you go see a you will definitely have not have seen anything like it before. Um, just as the finished product of the the visual style, the sound, the thematic material and the script writing and the acting is just just a really unique product. Yeah, and and all the commentary behind it. It’s all very interesting. It’s It reminds me of the house that Jack Belt or Suspiria in in terms of just in terms of care and craft An intent. All right, let’s move on to tag lines. Years, tagline taglines a game where we come up with alternate taglines for the movie we reviewed, um, that we think might fit better or what Not? How many do you have? I’ve got three or four. I’ve only got two. Okay, so you go first. I could probably do without one of them. Um, doing okay. I’m pretty happy with both of mine. Okay, So the lighthouse? Yeah, it’s pretty. That’s pretty. I was really wet. Yeah, well, that was the wet fart. Here’s the long one. Okay. The lighthouse. Oh, wait. The lighthouse. Ah, come on. I mean, this just must be a guy blowing arm. That doesn’t sound like for us that 1st 1 though. It’s pretty great. It was pretty wet. I definitely should have pants. 100%. The lighthouse. Oh, just kiss. Already there was one point where they almost did, too. Yeah, and then they were like, Hey, whoa, hey! Fucking got you trying to fuck it and fuck me, guy and maybe the lighthouse. 50. Fuck the lighthouse. 50 shades of beard. That was good. That’s good. The lighthouse. We’re all just one Siegel away from a very bad day. I have been moments where I’ve been, like, kill that fucking bird. Of course they’re my birds. So the lighthouse lighthouse More like fight house Shut the fuck This’ll was the best taglines ever, I think. Ok, one last one. And it doesn’t quite fit, but I still liked it. Light has more like fight the lighthouse, sir. I’m afraid you’ve gone mad with power. Of course I have. You ever tried going mad without power? It’s boring. No one listens to you. What’s that from? That’s from The Simpsons movie. Oh, okay. Um boo boo. You didn’t like the Simpsons movie? Oh, I thought it was pretty good. Ah, Spider pig got in mind. What? I’ve lost so much respect so much. You’re one of those guys. 01 of those guys were taste. Yeah, I am one of those guys. So let’s move on to our pumpkin carving contest. Yeah. So, uh, what’s the, uh So let’s make a sign for the BAP dap bap bap bap bap, bap bip Bip Bip pumpkin carving contest But But come on, get in on this bump on Papa Papa von Pumpkin Carving contest announcing the winners of a pumpkin car bank on. Ah, that’s the extent to which I’m marrying Thio. I You gotta commit David. All right, so if you didn’t know and some of you might not know we had a pumpkin carving contest and we’re giving away to the winner a set of hocus pocus funk Oh, pop dolls. Yeah. All three of the ladies from hocus pocus re re created for your viewing pleasure as fun co pop dolls, little bobblehead dolls. And then that’s the first prize. Second prize is we’re gifting the the track or the music of focus Hocus pocus by focus, focus pocus by focus, which, if you’ve never heard it. I mean, just go to YouTube right now and look that up. That’s delightful. Um, third prize, You get nothing. You don’t get any. So we’ve got, um we’ve been talking about it for about a month now. Probably not quite. Not quite a month, A couple, couple weeks, weeks tweeted about it. We’ve gotten a tweet. That was retweeted a lot. Yeah. How did you do that? That’s pretty good. I don’t know. I just just caught on fire. Just caught on fire. We’ve had actually more popular tweets than that one. Like a sense of how she can really take off pretty easily on Twitter. Yeah, it was our first experiment with a contest, and I don’t know what we’re doing wrong or like what the what the, uh I think that’s practices or more. Probably more time. Really? Yeah, I think we should We should have had at least one or two more weeks on there considering, you know, we we We’ve really only been talking about it for two or three weeks. Yeah, 10 10 entries is pretty good. Yeah. So we got nine entries and interest, and we can We can look at them all now and kind of comment it. We can tell you what they what they are. And then we’ll decide on air and of the wars. And, of course, if you want to check out the entries, they will be available on our Facebook and Twitter. And also, I’ll put all the pictures on the post for this episode as well. Can we put him on Instagram too? Maybe, uh, maybe cool, because our instagram it’s pretty dead. So what’s open? Take a look at some of these pumpkins, Punkin. Okay, well, so let’s leave big. And for the for the end. My body begging. Um, Okay, I got an entry from Steven R. Okay, let’s take a look at Stevens punk in here on this one. This one’s pretty good. This is as far as a straight ahead Jack o lantern. Pretty menacing grin, spiky teeth. Spooky eyes. Yeah, that was the eyes. Do a thing on this one where it’s like, kind of double its. I can’t tell if it’s the way that it’s not the way the pictures taken. It’s intentional that it’s like, super transposed thing. See how there’s like, two eye flutters at the tips of the Yeah, yeah, I mean, that’s carved. And then he’s got, like, kind of eyebrows carved into it and send it out. It’s pretty cool. Look, that is a really good entry. As far as like, a straight ahead Jacqueline. And I think that’s like a front runner. Yeah, for the Jack o lantern types, we’ve got Xavier de, which is a pretty awesome name. Or Xavier. If your friends Sure, um or X e x x avere We veer from the south, we have sufficiently destroyed your name. This one’s another Jack o’lantern Also very spooky. Yeah, I’d say on par with Stevens on forest, even like it’s ah. But he chose to light it with an l e d light. Did you just fart? What was that fart sound that you made? It was probably just from my throat. Yeah, I like. I like Xavier’s. It’s ah, it’s a meat and potatoes Jack o lantern like a pretty pretty strong on the needle teeth And another one from Magnus. We’ve talked about magnets before. He’s a good boy. Delight. See, Now, Magnus kind of went above and beyond here with the background. Yeah. Chose to say true amazing artist among the autumn leaves. So he’s got another jack o lantern. It’s kind of got a stitched mouth. Crazy kind of the nightmare before Christmas. Yeah. Eyes on it. Yeah, it kind of It’s kind of Jack, Jack O lantern or whatever is young is from this is this is really good. Um, I’m gonna the way all the way from sweetie. I’m gonna be honest. I’m kind of glad that Magnus isn’t the best one, because I didn’t really want to mail it to Sweet who? That would have been a spicy meatball. You know what I would have done as I would have just transferred funds for him to buy his own funk? Oh, pop. Like that way can’t. Magnus is great. He’s a super fan. He just threw a Halloween party and printed out a bunch of horror movie time. Yes, I’m I’m glad you brought this up. If you guys want to see pictures of Magnus is, um of Magnus is ah, Halloween party that he threw all the way over across the pond in Sweden. He threw a Halloween party at a like a bar or a club. That’s like it looks like it’s it looks like it’s underground, like in, like, you know, Europe. And, uh, it was attended by, like, 80 some odd people. Yeah, and it was a badass like themed zombie outbreak party. It was really cool. It was bad. So that’s so Pictures for that are on our last post, so that would be zombie land. Fittingly, Zombieland double taps. So check out his his party in zombie land. Double tap. Yeah, he’s a He’s a cool dude way, haven’t we? Haven’t checked. If we had a spike in Swedish listeners, we have It’s not. It’s not tremendous, but I mean I mean, I’m sure it’s Magnus driven. Yeah, thank you so much to listeners that recommend the podcast to friends, especially like this is a great time to do it. If you’re if you’re a little like shy about your fanaticism about horror movies, you don’t want to be that guy. Um, you know, people are watching horror movies around now, this is gonna be released on the 30th. So, I mean, you could share. Yeah. There’s a contact. Your friend? Yeah. There’s contact. Oh, now we’re getting into one of the one of the Oh, we’re not. Okay. Well, let’s skip over. Let’s go into the We’ll save the top three. And bottom one. Let’s check out Caitlin A’s. Caitlin, eh? Um, Caitlin and Garrett send in their jackal lanterns again. This is like a very straight ahead jackal entrance. Both of these. Yes, but they both have a little bit of attention to detail in the three d space. Like they Yeah, they think about the curvature of the pumpkin and kind of factor that into the whole thing, Which I appreciate. And I like Caitlin’s has, like, the mini pumpkin inside the maw of her Jack Atlanta tonight. I couldn’t I couldn’t see that. Hey, that’s pretty good. I like whenever they involved. Like, um extra, like little pumpkins, their stuff coming out of the mouth. So they’re a married couple. Is that other one next to her’s? Is that Garretts? Yeah. Okay. Okay. So, um oh, it’s not a pumpkin. It’s a Lauren. It’s a little orange with a sad face. Okay, so and then Garrett’s is similar. Similar standard. Um, what do you call it, Jack o lantern style. Um, you know, it’s menacing. It’s I think I like Caitlin’s more. Sorry if I’m assuming that the one with the orange is Caitlin’s. Okay, so now we’re getting into our top three thes air. The actual contenders like No offense the ones that we’ve talked about there they are great. No, none of them are embarrassing. I can’t wait until we talk about Big and sunk in just F y. I, like David has assured me that Begins is his game to be, like, made light of or like, you’ll never find a more amicable kind, like just jovial person than Brad, which I’m very glad because we’re just going to rip your apartment come from that bread. Uh, but let’s get into the top of the top three. Okay? Tina D. Submitted a great pumpkin, so it’s got the word creepy on it, and it’s dripping. It’s very like our, um, our logo. Almost. Actually, no. I think I know the font that she’s using. I think That’s a Google fund. This I might be wrong. This this. Okay, so Tina’s is such an expert skill level on carving. I can’t the Yeah, this is not like, um, there’s some some pumpkin carvings that air like they do kind of the shading effect by carving progressively deeper into it. This is a straight ahead all the way through the pumpkin, but it’s super skilled in that because it’s the lining is like she’s got that slightest little slivers of lines between the the the letters. Creepy. I cannot believe how how finally, detailed this thing is caught for straight carving. And then it’s got an eye above the word creepy with a little that that plays with, like, the negative space. The pupil is like a little bad guy, and he’s got a little hand. That’s part of the the eyelash. Yeah, it’s really good. I mean, the the font on is amazing. The drip effect is really cool. I mean, this is this is ah, definitely a front runner. Um, then we have Jared. Jared, um, it’s got Ah, let’s say Jared be okay. Um okay, this one I mean, this is to me, It’s it’s on another level, this is pretty impressive. So he’s got this. It’s almost unfair. E I mean, he’s got, like, the heck are those hexagons? I’m not beyond 123456 six sided. Ah, the thing is, what would that be? I don’t know. It’s not a Those are what bees make, right? Sure, honey, come, Ho would be a so hexes five. Okay, so cept her nose except a seven. We’re really again. We talk about formal, right, well researched on this on this pocket. Anyways, it’s got this geometric pattern and then the center it’s like and this is one of those pumpkins that that uses the depth of the pumpkin toe Let the light shine through. He never There’s a few spots where it’s just accented and actually carved all the way through. But most of most of this pumpkin is just is just surfaced carving yet in the center is an eye scooper detailed the I like very, very much like the black Christmas. I yeah, the crazy I you see through people and I want to point out this is fucking ridiculous. He carved it so this looks like it’s shaded like he took out that particular shape, and it’s hovering over it. Yeah. Can you appreciate how ridiculously riel that looks like? I mean, we went to extensive like we’ve we Okay. So, to to kind of help you guys understand how impressive this thing. First of all, you got to go check it out on on the post or on our on our social media, But we were pretty sure like that. This was that. This was stolen from something. Yeah, this feels like it is not if there is a contender for, you know, highly suspicious entry. It would be. This one did a reverse image. Church didn’t didn’t come up a lot of research. Did did research around the other info on it, the email that submitted it. And the only thing I can find is the reddit user that submitted this tow our art pretty much the same day that he submitted. It s so so. First of all, beautiful pumpkin. Second of all, I mean, it’s ah, just the whole concept is a concept to execution. Pull. Think. Very impressive, Jenna. What is our What’s our last entry? Um, besides brats. So Jessica got in right under the wire. Um, another patron that we love. Early Patron. This is one of the first. Yeah, she’s a starter of the 66 60 year. Yeah. Yeah. And, um, she submitted another great entry. This is another like three D one where it’s it’s really like a sculpture. It’s a scar. Fisher. Yeah. This is I am so envious of artistic people and like being able to being able to see something and within something normal, something cool within something normal and then, like, flesh it out like this is it’s like a It’s like she turned a pumpkin into a goblin face. Yeah, and it’s kind of nose and and crazy, crazy, like facial features like wrinkles. And yeah, it’s pupils and shit. Yeah, it’s great. And got got three D teeth and stuff. I mean, it’s really impressed, So I mean, the front runners are these last three. We got Jessica. We got Jared and Tina like it’s I mean, this city close, Bryce. I’m gonna I’m gonna say I think we’re both thinking. Um okay, here’s what I’m gonna say. Can we do a split on second place? Because Yeah, because I can’t. They’re both They’re both impressive and they both deserve hocus pocus by folks. This is what I’m saying. I mean, this is what I’m saying. Let’s let’s be honest. I can’t. They’re they’re impressive in their own right. For Or maybe we can when you can split hocus pocus by focus between them so half And after half of the year half of the year, Jessica can have focus, focus, focus On the other half of the year team they can have hocus pocus by foot will be silly brakes on taxi radio contact the the recording licensure. And we’ll just work out the logistics of splitting. That’s about that silly. What you do is instead, you just take the song, put it into an audio, enter and cut it in half. One gets the front first part and the other gets the second half. Okay, Okay. That makes sense. Right? Right. Right. So I must say, a two way tie between, um, between Jessica and Tina. Tina and that ends First place goes to Jared. Jared be just ridiculously good, Like Wow, Jerry. I mean, I’m still gonna have to email this guy and be like, Can we get some You legit. Can we get some applause for all of our entries? Except for Brad’s? Let’s get a round of applause from our studio audience. Thank you, Studio. You know, you guys were really usually very, very kind and well behaved respectful that, you know, you know, this is a controlled recording. Time to let it. This is it. Let us hear your appreciation for Jared. Thank you. That’s that’s that’s good. And indeed for all of our injured. Thank you. Everyone who participated in this, we sure do appreciate it, man. You give a mouse a cookie. Okay. All right. Please way. Keep it down. Way got the rest of the way. Mute the house mikes, please. We’ll make the house, Mike. All right, so congratulations, Jared. And Tina and Jessica will hear him in the back right now. They’re just They’re animals. We’ve improved. Well, that’s what you get when you have a rabid fan base. Um, now, let’s talk about Brad’s. I spent, like, five minutes trying to figure out what the fuck this was because I gave up, elected the description. Okay, Like so there’s two pumpkins in this picture and points out he’s like guys, mine is the shitty doesn’t say shitty. Mine is the one on the left. I was like, What is that? A pig? Cyclops? So it’s like, All right, so it’s got It’s like a circle and that has got, like, Globular, my son is normal and then it has It looks like a snout. It looks like a pig snout and some like Is that like a angry birds pig? Or like a very particular type of angered birds? Pig? Because it’s got the circle on the top that looks kind of like an eye, but it’s Thea negative space, but it’s hanging down the thing. It’s clear that he had high aspirations and 060 scale to execute a and then the side. There’s like the circles, too, but they could be arms. Yeah, I don’t know. It was It’s unclear. It looks almost like a like a Tetris game or something like that. Yeah, like are like are worded Tetris game. So here’s Here’s what he said in the comments, and we’ll have to do a side by side. We’ll have to pull a picture of this just so you can see it. You know, one against this the other. He said, Ah, mine is on the left and then in parentheses. Mario Mario Mushroom. Okay. And Kates, My wife is on the right. So he’s got now. Kate, yours is fine. I it is. It is a just a normal pumpkin entry, but Brad’s is uniquely retarded. Hand. God help you, big guy. I love you to death. But this man, you should give up on pump even if even if you have kids, they should hurt or, you know, Just don’t be so ambitious. Like, just start practicing. You don’t just do some triangle eyes and, like, just a smile. We’re gonna You know, my dad grows a tremendous amount of pumpkins everywhere, like just just off the charts. So, Brad, you’re perfectly welcome to come up here to Clark County, grab some Ah, grab some pumpkins and just practice away because you need it, buddy. So Brad was the very first entry in the pumpkin carving contest, and he was the only entry for, like, a week. And then we were sitting there like, Oh, God, if it’s only Brad Hawk and it’s just this is just gonna be a massacre. Brad wins the hocus pocus by focus with Erna and and the hocus focus girls. So anyways, thank you so much for for sharing and entering into the pumpkin carving contest. IOU beers buddy for for breaking over the girl beyond black Grand pumpkin car over and over. Uh, he’s a good guy. We’ve been assured that he’s he’s a good guy. He is. Yeah. Yeah, And if he’s not God help you because he’s the biggest motherfucker you’ve ever seen in your life. Yeah, he could probably kick my ass, but, um, it can’t cover pumpkin out out of, ah, wet paper bag. Maybe that was the problem. He’s like Andre, the giant level huge. You just startinto carve and then punched a hole throat with us. Yeah, you know, it’s like he’s holding it between his his ah, his index finger nous thumb. And he’s got this teeny, tiny little life that’s basically like playing with a doll set. And he’s just trying his hardest to be intricate. But he can’t because he’s so big and his face is so far away from his hands. It’s like I can’t see. Sorry, bread. Thanks for rendering. Thanks, everyone. And congratulations. Jessica, Tina and our first place winner, Jeer and Jared. You’ll be getting your brother. Oh, man, we really capitals in the me. Oh, yeah, we really appreciate everybody’s entry. So with that, with that, so we have That’s the end of our episode. Please. Again, check out our website at horror movie talk dot com. Please, please, please, please share the podcast with a friend. It’s the only way that we grow We don’t advertise And we’ve depended on listeners to steadily grow us, which is the worst so far. The good news is it’s worked so far, and we’re kind of reaching in the inflection point where we’re seeing like, yes, we’re getting a better trajectory on increased downloads. Um, check out our calls to action on a Web site. We’ve got the Amazon Associates button. If you’re planning on buying anything from Amazon the coming week, just click through the button and we’ll get a little taste of whatever you spend. And then, of course, our patron that we’ve patri on that. We’ve mentioned special thanks to all our pumpkin carving contest entries and special thanks, especially a special special specially to Dustin are ah, our ah post artist. Our resident artist who provides us with beautiful artwork and who does commissions if you if you have. Ah, you know, if you have art desires, he can He can fucking get you some art. Yeah, to be to be honest, we do not deserve Dustin. No, Um, so please support him and ah, use him on your projects and at D global d ah g o e b e l 00 on instagram. Yeah, um, and special thanks to all our patrons and yeah, do check out our do check out our latest blogged by Keith on the his top 10 favorite zombie types. It is a as as you’ve come to expect from Keith. It is a compendium, so check it out. It’s on. Ah, it’s on our website under the blog’s section. And with that, that is another episode of horror movie talk ended and we love you. What should we check out next week? Oh, yes. Oh, the coming weeks trying. We are doing the shining and I think that we can get my wife on the pod for that one. She has expressed interest in watching the Shining because she is interested in seeing Dr sleep, which will be not next week, but the week after. So check out the Shining. I don’t know where that’s available right now. Yeah, I mean, I might have problems dollars for it Now, I think I think it might actually be available on Netflix. Yeah, I would be. I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s free somewhere because Dr Sleep is coming out. I think it is on Netflix, so yeah, that’ll be exciting to talk about because I actually read, um, while the listen to the audio book, my wife would take issue with me saying I read it, but I listen to the audio book of both The Shining and Dr Sleep. I’m the last couple months and, uh, i’ll be able to talk about, you know, maybe a little bit more informed than I normally do, But not with good grammar. That’s all thinking about by Yeah, Roar

This movie does not try to be anything it’s not. It wouldn’t
be fair to say that it’s not a smart movie, because the dialog and the banter
all are at least clever, and at best they are quite funny. It doesn’t have much
in the way of a noteworthy story, though, which didn’t really bother me. A
heavy story would have been in the way of the things that make this movie work.

With that being said, there isn’t much to spoil about this movie, and to do a rundown of the plot would end up looking like me trying to explain the plot to a monster truck show, or a wrestling match. Instead, here is a list of fun things that work and don’t work within Zombieland: Double Tap.

Fun Stuff That Works

Zombieland Rules

The rules that Columbus comes up with make sense and always
come with an example so that you can apply it to your zombie experience. These
function as running gags and are perhaps the reason why the first movie did so
well. The most comprehensive list of rules from the first movie that I can find
is:

1. Cardio
2. The Double Tap
3. Beware of Bathrooms
4. Wear Seat Belts
5. No Attachments
6. The “Skillet”
7. Travel Light
8. Get a Kick-Ass Partner
9. With your Bare Hands
10. Don’t Swing Low
11. Use Your Foot
12. Bounty Paper Towels
13. Shake it Off
14. Always carry a change of underwear
15. Bowling Ball
16. Opportunity Knocks
17. Don’t be a hero (later crossed out to be a hero)
18. Limber Up
19. Break it Up
20. It’s a marathon, not a sprint unless it’s a
    sprint, then sprint
21. Avoid Strip Clubs
22. When in doubt Know your way out
23. Ziplock
24. Use your thumbs
25. Shoot First
26. A little sunscreen never hurt anybody
27. Incoming!
28. Double-Knot your Shoes
29. The Buddy System
30. Pack your stain stick
31. Check the back seat
32. Enjoy the little things
33. Swiss Army Knife

Rules that Double Tap added that I found in this movie are:

• Enjoy the little things
• Don’t be afraid to ask for help
• Wet naps

The Jokes

Man, I belly laughed more than I care to admit during this
movie. Double Tap has that intoxicating effect of sweeping you up in the action,
excitement, and fun that lends itself to easy laughs.

Madison is more than just a breathtaking beauty, her comedic
timing along with the way she plays a vapid valley girl who has managed to
survive Zombieland for so long makes her one of the best parts of this movie
for me.

The Guns and the Action

Look, I’m not an action movie guy. I don’t own guns, but I
do have a blast shooting them, and I was raised a red-blooded American male.
The amount of badassery that takes place in this movie is off the charts. Cool slow-mo
montages, Metallica, Gatling guns, heads being ripped apart – it’s awesome.

Stuff That Doesn’t Work

Bryce didn’t like the slow start of the movie. It worked quite well for me, and it reminded me of a book that was trying to catch you up on the previous installment.

There isn’t much in the way of a story here, and what is present is a shitshow as far as continuity or, you know, making logical sense. But zombies are roaming the earth, and beautiful actors are the only ones that lived so, it’s not like it needs to make tons of sense.

The film opens with the father of the family, William, standing before a panel of Puritan judges being defiant. We’re never told exactly what William is on trial for, but my guess is it’s for being kind of a dick.

The family is banished from the Puritan plantation and sets out to create a homestead on the edge of the forest. The dissonant music tells us that this is not going to bode well for them.

Within the first 10 minutes of the film, the families baby is stolen literally right from under Thomasin.

Not to waste any time, Eggers establishes that, yes, the witches in this movie are real, and yes, they are scary af. We are shown the witch murder the baby and literally grind it down to bits with a mortar and pestel to rub the remnants over her wrinkled bent body.

This movie does not fuck around.

While you might think that the entertainment of this movie might come from the over the top violence that that scene might convey, the real good stuff comes from great characters and subtle interpersonal drama.

This movie is brilliantly written. It really explores the fragility of human life, and their will resist their weaknesses.

As the family works hard to mitigate their disastrous corn harvest, it is made clear that the cards are stacked against them. In the wood is not only the witch, but her master the devil is also exceedingly close. We see hints that outside forces are conspiring against them. We are given hints that some of the animals we see are either the witches familiar, or are inhabited by dark forces. You can tell that they are evil because they have real shifty eyes.

Everyone in the family is dealing with their own struggles and doesn’t really notice the obvious signs of satanic interference. Caleb is dealing with his burgeoning puberty. Katherine is dealing with the grief of losing her child. Thomasin is dealing with the guilt of losing Sam on her watch. William is trying to hold everything together. The twins… well the twins are mainly praying to a goat. We hear them sing this song to their black goat:

Black Phillip, Black Phillip, A crown grows out his head,
Black Phillip, Black Phillip, To nanny queen is wed.
Jump to the fence post, Running in the stall.
Black Phillip, Black Phillip, King of all.
Black Phillip, Black Phillip, King of sky and land,
Black Phillip, Black Phillip, King of sea and sand.
We are ye servants, We are ye men.
Black Phillip eats the lions From the lions’ den.

The Twins’ song

The events quickly turn south when Caleb goes missing in the woods. We see him captured by a seductive witch in the woods.

Now the family is exceedingly suspicious of Thomasin since both disappearances happened with her around. Things are only made worse, when Thomasin finds Caleb naked and bewitched.

In a family prayer circle, Caleb comes to, but rants about the witch tormenting him, then the sighs in religious ecstasy as he is accepted into the bosom of Christ and dies.

The whole time, the twins are accusing Thomasin of being a witch, and eventually William is convinced.

When he confronts Thomasin, she denies the charges, but also spits some hard truths back at William. Mainly that he is a terrible father and farmer, and he is only good at chopping wood. She also points out how close the children have gotten with Black Phillip and that they are actually much more likely witches.

William puts Thomasin and the twins into the shed and boards them in.

Then all hell breaks loose.

The witch appears in the shed and goes full cackle.

William is attacked by Black Phillip and in his last moment, succumbs to evil.

Katherine is tempted by the vision of her dead children.

Finally, Katherine attacks Thomasin, and Thomasin kills her mother in her defense.

The film concludes with Thomasin making a pact with the devil and becoming a witch herself.

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Wipes for kids Hello and welcome to horror movie talk and opinionated and accidentally funny Horror Movie review Show your panel of expert hosts each week are Dr Bryce Hansen, who holds a phD in Spook ology, and Professor David Day, the foremost expert on scare No nose. New theatrical releases always get priority, but we also review older horror movies both good and horrible. I’m Bryce Hanson and I’m David Day. I’m the foremost expert in scare. No nose. Yes. I don’t know if you knew that, and I appreciate if you’d call me Dr Hansen from now on. Yes, Doctor. I mean handsome. I went to 12 years of college to get my doctorate in spook ology. Well, I mean, you got to respect the position. Respect the the position, not the person, I think, uh, to new listeners. Check out our website at horror movie talk dot com All one word you can put a www in front of that. You know how websites work there? You’ll find links to our social media and past episodes. We post new episodes every Wednesday. So please subscribe on your favorite podcast platform. And please, please, please, if you’re on IOS and use apple podcasts, leave us a rating. And we’re really trying to get up to 200 ratings. That’s our goal. You guys want us on rotten tomato? We wanna be on rotten tomato. So guess who’s gonna be on rotten tomato with or without your help, motherfucker? Say you better get on with your help. You with your note? I meant to say we’ve got a great show I am this so excited for today. This is like I’m I can feel the energy in the room today because this has been a long time coming. Yeah, we’ve talked about this movie quite a bit because it’s one of our favorite movies. It may be my very favorite movie. Yeah, it may be. It may be right behind there will be blood. Yeah, this is Ah, an important film in the horror genre and something that I think fans of ours will like us talking about. Today we’re gonna be talking about the Witch Hall. They will start out by giving a brief review and our score for the movie. We score on a scale of 1 to 10 1 being miserable dredge That makes you angry fiving in perfectly average film. It’s all the expected marks in 10 being so good it transcends genre boundaries. This is all stuff we say in every episode. So let’s get through so we can talk about the witch after we give our score, will get into spoilers and take a deeper dive into what we liked and hated about. The film later will be doing a couple of games we’re gonna be doing taglines perennial favorite as well as a new game, especially for the witch, which is a witch, which is a which which which is which, So we’ll get there. But first, let’s talk about the witch. Let’s indeed we both rewatched the witch. It’s ah, the Times. Have you watched this, I think, is probably my fourth or fifth time. Yeah, this is probably my third. I think it’s available for streaming on Netflix right now, right? And it is as great as I remember it the first time. It is just such a solid perfect. It’s It’s really a great movie, but what’s e I mean? Just wait for our scores, though, because you never know. You never know. I mean, I’m I’m feeling a pretty low score today. Here’s the trailer. What? When we out into this wilderness to find I believe in our country. Kindred our fathers houses For what? For the kingdom of God. Let’s just wait. Family. Wait. Can I leave my senator? We have a show. Okay. Again, Like David mentioned, this film is available for streaming on Netflix. If your Netflix subscriber, you can just watch it for I mean, I guess not technically free. But you can watch it there as well as any you know, rentable streaming platform that’ll be found there. This film is about a family that’s trying to live off the land in 17th century New England after being banished from a Puritan plantation due to ideological differences, the film never tell specifically what these religious differences are. But the father William, played by Ralph Innocent, is a devout man of God that, while prideful and stubborn, is trying to raise his family as zealous Christians. Williams family is made up of his wife, Katherine, played by Kate Dickie, and his five children. Thomason, the eldest teenage girl. Caleb, the next oldest boy who was on the cusp of puberty. And the young twins, Mercy and Jonas. And finally, the Baby Sam, while the while the harsh realities of homesteading in 16 30 present their own danger. What this film is really about is this family being beset by a witch that lives in the nearby woods. There’s well, it’s just general satanic forces. There’s a lot of undercurrents and themes within this movie that go, in my opinion, go much deeper than just the what you see at the surface level, so and, well, I’m going to get into that for sure. So, yeah, um, the film’s original title was the bitch. So ah, lot of times you’ll see this this film with the title of To Capitol these in front of it originally was called The Vite. The vich, a New England folk tale. And it really is that great lengths are taken to make this period piece authentic, from the costume design to the dialogue, which is sometimes taken directly from sources from the time I went in with a certain set of expectations with the film, I thought the major dramatic tension in a super realistic period film would come from the mystery or doubt surrounding false with Kraft accusations. Allah the Crucible. Well, this is not the Crucible know. While realistic, this is still very much a folk tale. And as such, the witches are very riel, and the power of the devil is frighteningly apparent. Yeah, that’s like the major. I mean, it’s it’s so weird seeing it. It’s so accurately portrayed. Yeah, I am. And the characters even more so than a normal period drama Almost and because it felt as dirty as it would be bad. And it’s not like, Yeah, I mean I mean, if you’re trying, if basically, if you’re trying to move out into the middle of the woods in Ontario and ah, which is where this was filmed isn’t in northern Ontario. I’ve been there and it looks just like this, Um and, ah, if you’re trying to do that and really make a make a shot at it, this is what it’s kind of look like. If you don’t have a truck, if you just got ah, horse and some seeds in your pocket Yeah, and so the it’s not. It looks realistic, but it is not based in reality. This is based in a the folk magic and the folk beliefs of the time, which is also just a really interesting thing, like taking like a folk tale like what if you took Paul Bunyan and made a realistic, gritty movie about him? Yeah, it’s no, it’s a turn that I think I wish we had more of these kind of examples of, you know, the the the cautionary tale that was told to keep people in line being riel right that you know. But also they really believe this stuff back then, yes, that’s very much had impact on their lives, as opposed to just being like a children’s story, right? So it should be noted. And several people have noted that this film is important in the genre as being the first in this modern wave of horror films dubbed Elevated Horror. Um, which most of them coming out of the 8 24 film studio. The seriousness and craft that director Robert Eggers brings to this film is undeniable. It showed how successful a serious and cerebral horror movie could be. Yeah, I went into this with high hopes because the trailer was very impressive and I was not disappointed at all. I remember coming out of this going Holy shit. I didn’t know that this kind of thing could happen, right? You know, I didn’t know that you that you could make this kind of like it just was a totally new thing to me, and I was so excited because I like it, gave me hope for more like this, and hereditary really followed it up nicely, right? And it’s it’s kind of a also out of a 24. Yeah, this this moniker of the elevated horror movies I know in the genre. There’s lots of people that take issue with that because it’s saying that the other horror movies aren’t as good. Yeah, but even look around the time I mean production value and the seriousness of the draw of the genre was kind of starting to get more traction even before 2015. So I mean, like, even the conjuring films were a little higher effort. Yeah, they were taking more seriously than a final destination movie, and it was starting to come out of that found footage. Um, period in horror films to where they’re like All right, we’ve we’ve, ah extracted a ton of value out of this idea of found footage where supposedly we’re spending a lot less money to make a lot more money. Yeah, because it feels realistic. And then they started going back more towards high production and higher like artistic. And you’re coming, Merritt, you’re coming out of a decade, you know, 2000 2010 where it was kind of it was kind of a desolate spot for horror movies. I mean, there are obvious, you know, standouts. This is where this is kind of where, you know, found footage was birthed and but a lot of people toe found footage in very high regard. It all, um I I think there’s definitely a time and place for it, but in terms of, ah, big blockbuster horror, there was not a lot going on for a long time. Yeah, this is this one of one of the kick starters? Yeah. I mean, the blockbuster horrors were the found footage movies, right? I mean, Blair witch and paranoia paranormal activities did really well, Yeah, they did really well, the other ones that were really popular, you know, maybe not right around this time, But pretty soon before, it was like more on the torture porn variety, Yes. Hostile and saw and stuff like that that was had it today in the sun. And so this is really kind of a turning point, and some point to it as the first, but, I mean, there’s other films around there. I mean, the Baba do came out before I could say that that was kind of it felt like in the realm of the elevated horror, Um, stuff. I felt like it felt like there. Now. There was being horror made for me, right? Is what this film felt like to me. Um, but I really can’t say enough good things about the which It creates a believable world filled with relatable characters, which brings a really unprecedented gravity to some of the fantastical supernatural elements. There is no doubt in this movie for the audience I want to make a point of that is going in. Like I thought that would be a big part of it. They go full, which they like, full cackle. If it is, we have kids. If you have kids, this is going to be, Ah, hard watch for your wife potential. If your wife is like my wife, they go full, which very early on. And the audience gets to witness in horror the dramatic irony of this poor family being ripped apart by the powers of Satan. Yeah, in a real real way, it’s really ah, disturbing and graphic. It goes hard in the paint, um, you know, But at the same time, it’s not. It’s not very, it’s It’s graphic in the in the graphic parts And then there’s just this. And then it’s mostly a kind of inter family drama. I mean, I can’t even say that there’s a lot of graphic parts. Honestly, it’s one of those films where you you first. So it first so much and you assume that there’s a lot that’s absolutely right. Just the ideas that it’s conveying are so shocking. Oh, well, the end the imagery is shocking to it is shocking. Yes. They don’t show that what? What we may be alluding to right now. And if you’ve seen the which you can probably know what we’re talking about, but they show enough for you to be like Oh, shit. Oh, shit. This is hyper alarming, right? And ah, so I give it a two out of 10. Sorry. Hot right now? Yeah. No, uh, what do you Would you really give it? I give it a 10 out of 10. This is as close to a perfect horror movie for me as as it can get. And I mean, I you can call me your pretentious douchebag. But if you think that this movie sucks, you can just get the fuck out of here, okay? Yeah, just like this is really our lane. Yeah, 100%. And ah, I I definitely 100% agree with you. I like I said, I’ve watched this four or five times. I may enjoy it more than I enjoy hereditary. This is such a good, such a well made, well thought out. Just impressive story from beginning to finish. Like just in terms of Eve. We’re looking at good stories. If all you’re looking for is a good story, this is a fabulous story. There’s no fat on the bone at all. Everything is intentional, everything’s important. Every scene is there for a reason. And it’s so good. It tickles my Dickel the whole way through. Yeah, I think I mean, some people I’ve heard some people say that it feels really slow, but it doesn’t. For me, it’s only an hour and 1\/2. It moves a pretty quick clip, and stuff happens like one after the other. It, if you’re there, is enough time to breathe, and and And there might be an element of hearing the accent and the language of the time. That might be a little off putting. People might not quite understand it would be like, Oh, this is boring because they’re talking boring Talk has listen to their voices. Not only is that but so much of it requires your you to make up to infer right. This is not a horror movie that shows its its hand. You know, this is not a Halloween movie where he’s he’s hacking people up. You know where he’s on the hunt. This is This is a movie that is a It is a slow burn drama, you know it is. It is a drama dramatic story about a family that’s being torn apart. Yeah, and tearing themselves apart like it’s Yeah, there’s lots of stuff that happens between interpersonal relationships. And I think, you know, I gave hereditary of 10 out of 10 also, but I think I might be inclined, agree with you that this kind of edges it out because it’ll that of the sole reason that it is so consistent in tone like there’s not a shift. Hereditary has a definite shift at the end, which I still love. Like it’s not. It’s a totally different thing, someone people complain about, how it like, you know, it’s kind of goes full retard at the end with the with you said the hour with the cult stuff. But this one, You know what’s happening the whole time. And, you know, basically where it’s gonna end up, it’s either gonna end up, they’re saved or it’s gonna very badly. Yeah, Another aspect of this is and this is not This is this is not Thio. This is not to be, um, belittling towards towards people or anything like that. This is just one of these things where if if if you don’t have kids, it may like for me like there are plenty of people who don’t have kids and who will fully realize and and feel all the full spectrum of emotions that I felt through this whole thing Plenty because I remember watching this kind of movie before I had kids still affected me greatly, but there is a There is a sub, a subsection of people who just can’t relate to this. This very primordial like Oh my God, my kid feeling and and if that’s you, nothing, nothing against you at all. But this movie will work better if you have a lot of empathy for little kids. Yeah, I think I’m pretty inclined to write a block post. I got an idea for a plot post about the parental divide in horror movies, because when I go on our horror, said it, This is what I’m talking like there. There is a definite divide and people that love hereditary and, um, like movies based around family relationships and stuff happening to kids. And it may work a lot better for women as well. And for people with a high amount of empathy or who can relate very easily like this is the kind of thing that you will get to them. Maur. Yeah, but there’s there’s a certain element about parenthood that unlocks a just a huge Pandora’s box of fears of fear. Inside, you know, you did not have access until not have access to until you become a parent should preface that we didn’t have it. I didn’t have this necessarily so much of this terror for kids as I do now. Yeah, I mean, maybe if you’re an older sibling and you’ve had responsibility with kids and you realize how fragile and sickle and ah, you know, vulnerable kids are maybe a little bit really like. It feels like there’s this divide where people that had that her parents rescue. They get really scared by, um, kind of more cerebral relationship stuff around kids, right? And people that haven’t had kids. It just doesn’t affect him. Like you see a kid, you’re like, Oh, that’s another character that died, right? You know? Oh, no, that’s the the monster Got that? A little child. I’m really interested to see what they say about this because you have an interesting take on it. And because it is, it is a bit of a you know, it’s it’s a little bit of ah, I did delicate area, don’t get place to tread. And then, like the the other stuff that I know, it feels like the the people that aren’t scared by the parental stuff skew more towards slashers or like home invasion stuff, where it’s like they they’re just wanna see someone murder or they they are more fearful about being attacked right themselves, and I never Yeah, it’s hard for me to relate. I don’t really care, and also I’m a little bit nihilistic, so I just welcome it. I hope on first let’s let’s end this charade of life. Just take me now anyways. Yeah. 10 out of 10. It’s a fantastic movie. I’m sorry if I offended you if I told you to fuck off, but honestly, uh, this is like undebatable to me. This is just a great film. Yeah, it’s it’s it’s a great film that it sze not even it’s a standout the hum of the genre. You compare this to any other movie and I for the most part, unless you’re unless you’re putting it up against there will be blood. That would also be a good alternate title for this movie, by the way, Yeah, there will be blood. Yeah, that’d be a great title. But, um or, you know, this is this is a just a solid film. So let’s get into our mid roll. I just want to take some time before we get into spoilers and take a deeper dive into some of the plot elements of the witch to plug ourselves. Because if you like the podcast and you’re not a first time listener, I don’t expect first time listeners to come and go and join our patriotic count. But we do have a patriotic count, and we’ve just released several new tears ranging from kind of itty bitty donations up to, you know, rather sizable sizable donation for us and each Each tear gets more and more perks as you go up and every little bit helps and counts. And we really appreciate it if if you just take the time to consider supporting us because you know, this is a labor of love for us. So by all means if you can help help out the show, we are small and we want to grow. And every little bit does help. One of the the avenues that weaken, grow and get better is just production value in terms of, you know, we are third mike shit the bed on. So we need to replace that. There’s other stuff we could buy around, like freeing up some time with editing, paying someone to edit for us or to buy some more interstitial music That’s not just stolen. So stuff like that and, um, you know, we try to do bring content to the listeners that they care about, and, ah, you unlock some added bonus content when you become a patron also. Oh So if you want to become a patron or just check out what the tears are. If you’re curious, Goto our website horror movie talk dot com and there is a button and the banner to become a patron, and it’ll send you to our patri on page. The other button you’ll see in that banner is by on Amazon. You can support the podcast by buying or renting any movie or product on Amazon if you click through on that green button in the header. So if you’re gonna buy him something on Amazon, click through from our site and we’ll get a little taste of that eyes I have. I’m so excited because we have a pumpkin carving contest going on right now and is very important, and we have were announced it last week and we have zero entries. Well, I mean, you got to get the punk. It’s a little It was a little bit early last last week, so I understand they’re getting their pumpkins. They’re carving them up there, trying to think about you know what’s what’s gonna really wow us and win this contest? Because the winner, uh, you got to get your entries in by October 25th and the grand prize winner gets three funk Oh, pop bobblehead dolls of the witches from hocus pocus. So that fits quite nicely with this episode because I’m just like the witch is really disturbing. Hocus pocus has a few disturbing parts as well. You know what I mean? All you horror or porno fans? Yeah. Um, so you get in entries by the 25th of October said all you got to do is fill out your contact information and your address so we can send you the prize and upload an image of your pumpkin carving. Could be a jack o lantern and can be some super super elaborate, you know, movie poster carbon into a pumpkin. We’re really excited about how creative our fans are. And please share the entry retweet the tweets that we sent out about it or re share on Facebook. So you get all your friends that are doing pumpkin carvings to enter. Um I will say, Don’t cheat. We will do a reverse Google image search and whoever we pick and toe and picture that you’re not a dirty liar to enter into it. You just head to our website. There’s a There’s a Jack o’lantern from the Season of the Witch, the Halloween three movie that appears on almost all the pages Somewhere on the page. Yeah, it should be on all the pages on the home page is down at the bottom and pretty a pretty much every other page. It’s at the top of the sidebar. Um, it’s pretty unmissable if you scroll around. It’s a giant Jack o’lantern, and I’ll give you a link to the entry. You do have to have a Google account you have to sign into your Google account. To enter since is a Google form. But that’s not a big big You improvise the 25th of October and will announce the winner on the 30th of October podcast episode. So thanks again for listening. Oh, yeah, we haven’t mentioned the positive A cast Well, so the positive a cast went dark on Thursday or end and Friday I am gonna record a few new episodes, but I think the five day schedule is it is a little too much for this podcaster to keep up. So I need Thio. I need to rework exactly how the dreaded pod. Fayed. Well, yeah. I mean, the interestingly like my listens are up. Really? Yeah. It’s just like I’ve just got a lot on my plate right now, and I’m pretty busy, so I just let it slip for two days and you just ran out of things in the room to talk about. I went through every coin between John. Let’s see the torn up. No anytime. $2. Any talk about Darnell’s Inge? The crown molding didn’t crown molding. Okay, All right, dog will get down anyway. Thanks again for listening. Let’s get into spoilers. Oiler Foot section is This is the spoiler show. I like this first point you have What’s your first point? Oh, yes. So the first point It opens on the trial of William and his family. So it opens in this Puritan courtroom, you know, full on pilgrims like they’ve got hats with buckles on them. It’s not clear what William is on trial for, but he might be on trial for just being a dick. He’s kind of really. It seems almost like a trial that he called the way. The way it plays out, it seems like Williams like called them there, and he’s like, You guys are fucking up. Yeah, and they’re like, Well, what do you want from us? Would you like to be banished? And Lee? And he’s like, I fucking love it, Thank you very much. Let’s bring it like like it’s so confrontational On his part, it almost seems like he called the meeting and was like, You suck, you suck, You suck, you suck. I’m out. Yeah, I mean, it almost feels like it could be he’s too zealous or calling the church itself to repentance or write something that’s it doesn’t ever talk about specifically what it is. It feels prideful, but it feels prideful. It feels like, um and I think the only thing that really mentions later on is William talks about, like with disdain the church. So, like, I think organizationally like probably the inner hypocrisy, ease of the church or the leadership or something, whatever. It is like one of those common things that people leave churches for, like it’s but the lake, without a doubt William is a true believer is it’s not a trial for heresy, not a trial, for it’s doing something wrong. It’s a trial for either. William is being very difficult continuing to be very difficult or this is just William being like like, officially, I’m out like, yeah, I mean, it’s they basically say like, yeah, like you said, What, do you want to be banished or something? He was like, Yes, go for it. Fuck. Fuck you. Yeah, and they’re like, All right, you’re banished. It almost feels to me like it’s like William called it so that God could see him, renounce them and be like, I look, I’m done with you officially, Thank you. And so that so that he can maintain his, You know, his standing in the eyes of the Lord. Yeah, that’s an interesting take on it that he would call the trial. But I mean, I mean, that’s just what it feels like to be. Obviously, that doesn’t make the point. Is he’s very defiant and very confident in his ability to make it on his own, um, in the wilderness. So they go off and set up their homestead next to the edge of this impassible forest. Yeah, and you know, very early on as they’re going, a main character in this movie is the music and the soundtrack. The music does not. It communicates a lot. It does not bode well for this. Hold well for this family as they approach this forest. Birds air, not chirping bees. They’re not buzzing. But what you do here is creepy choral music and, like strings, it’s it’s ah, pretty intense in the soundtrack. We talked about this before. The soundtrack is just fantastic. The soundtrack. The soundtrack is perfect, like the choral music, the A bunch of voices all rising and falling and go together works really well. But not only the soundtrack, the sound design. What’s going on with the base, Um, what’s going on with the the way they pick up the vocals of everyone talking, It’s just so good. This is one of those things that’s very nerdy of me to point out. But what’s great about this movie is the dynamic range of the sound. How so? It reserves the very loud, loud for very loud moments, right, and normally it’s like a pretty relatively quiet film, and then some moments are very quiet, like there’s a big element, especially at the end around whispering, and it’s really effective because you’re leaning into it. And not only not only the sound is is but also the lighting that there are. So whereas some movies air just dark and you can’t see this movie is very dark for a lot of it. It’s, I mean, the lightest. It gets his gray. And I think I think the okay, There’s another podcast that you guys should listen to. I think I mentioned it before, but a 24 the studio that put out this movie, they have a podcast. And one of the episode was Ari Astor, the director of Hereditary, and Robert Eggers, the director of this film, just talking to each other. They’re interviewing each other, and it’s a really interesting up, so they don’t necessarily talk a lot about their own films. They actually talk a lot about their inspirations. One director and in particular, Ingmar Bergman, German director that was highly influential for both of them. They’re just kind of nerd ing out about this, Um, thing is a German Expressionist director, um, but in that in that interview, there are some stuff that that was revealing about Robert Eggers. In particular. His background is kind of in costume design I think his father or someone in his family was involved in fashion or costume design and sew. He has a really good grasp on it, and it comes out in this movie because the costumes were fantastic in the in. The setting of the movie is very realistic and, to your point of it, being dark talks. It’s got a beautiful Grady int of dark like It’s not just dark, and then it’s just black. It’s this amazing Grady int of light to dark right? But it’s realistically dark because at the time, if you think about it, if you’re in a scandal in the family at night, it’s literally lit by just candles. And so it’s super. Um, you know, the source. Lighting in the scenes is very dim and flickering, and I think I noticed, as I was watching those scenes with the family at night, just huddled around some candles. There he does light it a little bit more than would normally be from the source lighting, but very subtle right, because you can go to dark with this kind of thing as his evidence by that fucking Abe Lincoln movie with Daniel Day Lewis. Like that movie was so dark, I couldn’t see shit. The whole time I was in the movie theater. I couldn’t see anything. But we need to establish early that everyone in this found every everyone in the family is devout Christian. Oh, yeah, like they are true believers. There’s not really need out the only two that maybe kind of twins. That’s when the twins seem a little little ostentation. Yeah, they have, you know, they’re mostly Christians, but they also kind of like this black goat. Yeah, in particular. Um, but that’s really important that there’s not really any doubt in any of their minds like that’s not a part of it, Right? Religious doubt is not part of the equation, and that’s really interesting to me, the choice that they make. And I’ll talk a little bit more about that later. Um, within the 1st 10 minutes of this movie, we see the witch. Yeah, which is this most impressive part of this film, and it’s the part that sticks with me most probably because it’s the most shocking is it is. It’s like your ultimate nightmare come true. Yeah, so so opens up. They bear very quickly they’re expelled from the Puritan community. They set up their homestead and it kind of flashes forward and probably a couple seasons. It’s like they left in the spring, and now it’s here we are in the fall. So Thomas and the eldest girl is taking care of the baby Sam, and this is in the trailer. She’s playing peekaboo with him, and she covers her eyes and goes and does that three times. And the third time shams gone, she opens her eyes, and she’ll as she looks up there’s like a stick in the in the middle distance and a tree in the far distance. And they’re both wiggling, as though somebody just darted away right like it’s like Holy shit had How’d she moves? How? How did whatever grabbed him move so fast and he couldn’t feel it go by you or even just that moment in the trailer was so alarming, was on board was like Good God. That is frightening. Just having a baby vanish in front of you, and it’s within, like, closer than arm’s reach your hovering over it. It’s realistic to because I’m at that stage right now with Emma, where you know about nine months and she she she started calling a couple weeks ago. And now she’s so fast that you little you put her down and then you turn around to get a fork and then you turn back around. You’re like, Who? Where’s the baby? And, you know, she’s trying to pull the refrigerator down on top of it, right? So Baby Sam disappears and you think like, Oh, well, that’s gonna be the mystery of the movie. What happens to Sam? I know you don’t have to wait like it cuts to the witch running through the woods with the baby crying. Yeah, she’s like It’s like, Oh God, she’s she’s got him. There he is, He’s he’s in her arms. And then you go in this witches hovel and she’s kind of petting this naked baby. And you’re like, What’s she gonna do with this baby? What kind of ritual she’s gonna perform? And then she just picks up a knife. And you’re like, Oh, intimate cuts, too. Ah shot her a shot of her naked back. She’s naked port dimly lit and working away wars really, really working. And, uh, I don’t know howto howto break this to you. But she is mashing up this baby and like a mortar and pestle. Yeah, like just really grinding down baby and that she’s mirror on her. She rubs it all over herself, so alarming. It’s I can’t Stress is enough. This is within the 1st 10 minutes of the film, my wife was like She’s like, I remember this movie. This movie was great and then 10 minutes and she’s like, This movie is terrible. She’s like, I’m like, Yeah, but is it terrible? Is it just make you feel terrible on? She’s like it. It makes me feel terrible. It’s a great movie. I cannot get my wife to watch this movie. I tried so hard the angle of its a period movie. It’s It’s It’s a really it has artistic merit. It’s mostly accurate. All act all accurate. Yeah, that’s those. None of none of that is a lie. Yeah, and Ah, so, yeah, we’re We’re told very early on that this is a real thing, This which is actually mashing up babies and rubbing it on her body. And that’s like those air the table stakes for this movie. And so that’s where we are going on, and then it cuts back to the family. And a lot of it is just the family dealing with the disappearance of their baby. Yeah, and the fallout from that and all of the characters in their different stages of life and different priorities trying to live in this really, really marsh great environment. And, you know, you know, the baby going missing really sets the movie up for you know, your fall guy, you know? So now you have. I’m sorry, what’s the oldest girl’s name? I should Thomas and Thomas and Thomason is now like, fucked. Basically in the family’s eyes, she was. She was in charge of watching the baby, and the baby goes missing on her watch. And now she’s the fall guy, right? And, uh, and as if she wasn’t having a hard enough time coming of age, you know, she’s a young girl alone in the woods with Onley, her family coming of age. It’s just it’s this is everything’s coming to a head. Yeah, and things don’t go well for her after that as well. No, nothing goes well for anyone. The harshness of the wilderness is really a character in this movie. A very large element of this is in the backdrop. Not only are they suffering from this horrible loss, but also their farm is not doing well. Yeah, it has, like, like a little bunch of diseased corn. Yeah, and they are, Actually, we’re worrying about starving. Right? And William, the father is trying to do his best. Um, but in the end, you could you get the impression that he’s he doesn’t really know what you’re doing, either. Um, he he’s not terribly good at hunting. He’s not terribly good at farming, but he said he’s a dead ringer for chopping wood. Yeah, Dude’s got that wood chopping down and he does it throughout. That’s a that is a, ah, pretty constant. It’s a constant throughout the movie, where you get a scene of him chopping wood and basically it’s babe. It’s It’s just him getting his frustrations out, you know, it’s it’s him being with whatever that this next thing is that he’s dealing with. He’s just like fuck yeah. One of the main point is William doesn’t tell his wife Catherine, but he takes her silver copper prized silver Cup that she got from her grandfather or something, and he sells it so he can buy a trap for the woods because you know they’re going to starve. And so he’s trying to plan forward. He takes Caleb, their oldest son, but into the woods in the early morning, and William shares this secret with Caleb and tells him not to tell anyone. And, ah, they check this trap in its empty. It’s empty, it’s it’s gone off, but nothing. And they’re trying to go out and hunt and they have their gun with them and they spot a bunny. Yeah, William, like, kind of a hare, a hare. But it is a bunny, and you could tell that the hair is evil. Yeah, you could have got a real shifty eyes. You eat em and he’s not wrong. What? He says, the way sounding it sounds almost like a Norma Donald job. But no, that’s that’s an evil looking bunny. Yeah, it’s and like the music cues and stuff, it’s it’s great. So I mean, I always make for a reference to this, but that’s like a Simpsons references Bunny looked at you when ah, Homer is pitching a movie idea to Mel Gibson. He does laundry if the laundry list of all these ideas. And this is like the The dog is evil and Mel Gibson’s like, Well, how do you know that the dogs evil always got real shifty? I think at the end, while they’re running the credits in that episode, they got a dog with shifty eye looking around and you’re like, Oh, yeah, that dog is evil But this rabbit is he’s, um yeah, he’s a bad rabbit. And then the gun I said, I should say she’s a bad rabbit. Yes, it’s This is the which is familiar. Is it, though? Is one of them? Yeah, absolutely. And, ah, so they tried to shoot it, this rabbit, but the gun back fire. So it’s very obvious that this rabbit or this which have influence and they’re kind of fucking with yeah, the family and their livelihood And because and I mean there’s more to just the trap being set off, and there’s nothing there than just that because you look at the bare trap. If it gets set off, whatever sets that thing off is in there like like it’s not a hair trigger. Take some weight to Dio and and if if whatever put some weight on there, did it, it’s It’s still in the trap. Yeah, so they go back. And and so there’s this added element of Katherine wondering where your Silver Cup is. And this resent this growing resentment between Catherine and Thomas and her oldest daughter, oldest daughter, and the secret that Williams keeping so lots of, like, interpersonal stuff. The other thing that’s happening, like each character has a really interesting ark. Yeah, like every single one. So Thomason has this whole drama surrounding her of losing the baby and becoming more people becoming more and more so. Something about sheep of the family and Caleb, the oldest brother. He’s just on the cusp of of puberty. Yeah, you can tell he’s really dealing with what that means, because he’s like dealing with these hormones. And he’s trying to start sneaking a peek at Thomason’s breast, yeah, through her clothes. And then I could spend a whole episode just talking about that Really, like that is so there’s another movie that does that to which is babble. I don’t know if you’ve ever seen battle. No, I haven’t. But there’s this part. It tells the story of, like these different, disparate families across the world and how they impact each other. But one of the families is this Afghani. I think it’s an Afghani family, okay? And yeah, one of the boys is like tracked it to a sister because there’s no other women around. And you’re like going through puberty and living in a super super conservative religious environment that tells you your evil if you have any kind of lustful thoughts or whatever. And so, like when you have a lustful thought, it goes to the worst place, right? But this movie deals with it in such a realistic way. It’s not it. It’s not perverse or anything like that. I mean, it is in in in, in the very most bare bones of nature’s. But it’s not because of because of his reaction. He no, he’s feel shame about it. He’s trying to, you know, he’ll spend a little too long looking looking at her, and then he’ll and then he is very clearly feeling shame over it and and will avert his eyes from her for a whole minute, you know, and won’t even talk to her had just been like, you don’t leave me alone. I’m just trying to get by and be a non center here. So, like, and he doesn’t Can you take those sweater puppies and just maybe put him over there for a while? And he does love his sister to, like, just, you know, as a brother. Yeah. I mean, it’s just it’s just when there’s boobs out, you gotta look. Yeah. What are you going to do? Is one of those things when you’re growing up like you worry about. Like, what does this mean? Like, does this make me a bad person? Or does this make me evil? Um, or even like parents, when they see their kids doing stuff they have to be told or remind like this is just normal kid stuff. Well, yeah, this is stuff that they they’re figuring out. Like if you leave like little kids alone at a certain age, like they’re gonna end up naked around each other and they’re just gonna be curious and play doctor, whatever. And especially now, nowadays, you just like you immediately go to Okay. There’s some sexual predation going on. And even though even though they’re like five like, Oh, someone is preying on another. It’s like, No, this is This is just part of, like, curiosity and growing up and trying to figure out feelings and what not, anyway, So that’s going on with Caleb. It’s a mother, of course, is going through this grief spiral with losing Sam dealing with leaving her her country. Yeah, she left England. She misses, presumably, her whole family. Mrs Society, this is society realization. Now she’s cast out of their community, and everything is going wrong for so it’s very tempting. But I’m sure people look at the character of Catherine and say, Oh, she’s just a shrew or she’s like Man, she’s a real bitch Like she’s not being helpful. It’ll like the second viewing. Especially. I’m like, No, this is perfectly understandable lamp stuff that happens to Katherine. It is absolutely understandable that she would go insane like no doubt. Yeah, only abs. Absolutely. If you consider the whole of her of her, you know her life, and then where’d it’s amounting to? Right now, everything is Everything is coming to a head for this family very quickly. It for every person in this family and she’s really the only one that’s reacting in a relatively normal way to how crazy things are. Isn’t it weird? Isn’t it weird how, like she loses her son, her baby? Uh huh. And then, like, really almost the last, like one of the last straws for her is losing her Silver cup. Like then she’s like, Where’s my fucking silver cut? Like I moved away from my country. I got banished from the from our small little civilization. I lost a kid. I’m our farm is we’re not gonna have enough food for winter. And where’s my fucking cop? And then? Well, yeah, And then later, um, spoiler. We’re in the spoiler section, so doesn’t matter. But later, Caleb dice, right? And so she is. She’s her family is dying in front of her. It’s the only thing she has left, and even then, they’re worried about starving and all dying. So anyways, like her reaction to what’s happening makes a lot of sense. Even Williams reaction to it makes less sense because his pride and his like his stoic nous about the situation is probably not natural that he should be more panicked. And he’s he’s not I mean, but we all know Well, I mean, I know of at least a few people, uh, you know, in my in my family, who are very similar to him and and the reason I believe he is, he is. His faith is so strong, and he is so sure that God is with him that it justifies and and explains away, You know, I’ve met this guy who is just like this. I know him. He’s you know, I’m related to him. You s Oh, yeah. Um, so that’s his character. And then finally, the last characters of the twins. And they’re just little kids. They’re annoying little kids. They’re going a little shits, but a little boy and girl, they’re still innocent. But there’s something going on there. Yeah, there’s definitely something going on there. They’re singing this song. They’re a little too attached to this black goat black Philip who shows up out of nowhere. This if I if I caught the the um if I caught the way the way it went down is these kids are dancing around that that first scene with them dancing around and singing to black Phillip black. But they have the song for him. That’s the first time this family has seen Black Phillip Black. Philip appeared out of nowhere, and the dad wrestles him into into the cage. Know that it was their goat. And no, because because then later, Thomason says, says to her dad, Oh, and then and then this goat shows up out of nowhere and the twins, or just are able to speak to it. And you think when he’s basically accusing her of being a witch, she’s like, Well, what about the twins? This goat shows up out of nowhere. They can talk to it. It talks to them like I don’t I didn’t hear That comes out of nowhere thing because it’s hard. It’s hard for me because because her speech is so stilted in this old 16 hundreds kind of vibe. That’s what I thought I got out of it. I might be wrong. Correct me if I’m wrong. The first thing listening to this, the first thing is they’re like, dance around black Philip and out of his pen out of his pen, and they’re like the father is pissed off that they let him out, so, like it didn’t it didn’t appear then. So at least they had it at least before that scene. Okay? He was supposed to be in the pan and wasn’t. I’ll try and look it up as we’re as we’re talking. You know, uh, I can’t just pull it out on Netflix, so Yeah, Black Philip was in the family after some research. After some research, we we went back to the film way did reveal the tape. Um, so, yeah, these these twins are really enamored with this goat, and their family has had the whole time. I was wrong in my assumption that they found the go. Yeah. So they they’re singing songs to this goat, right? They have a song for black Phillip. They have a couple little things that they do and say with Black Philip. And this is one of those things that I I almost suggest that you watch this movie with subtitles. You can’t understand it. Um, it is kind of old English, so there might be some phrasing. It might be a little confusing. Um, but a lot of the stuff happens like a lot of the lyrics and stuff kind of betrays what’s going to happen. So this is the song that they sing Two black Philip, you gotta imagine Two twins singing this like that are maybe like, should we try a blackfella black Philip? A crown goes out, it’s and blackfella black Philip to Nanny Queen is wed Jumped the fence post running in the stall Blackfella black Philip, King of all King of all Yeah, on the other one’s air Black Philip, King of sky and land, King of sea and sand We are ye servants. We are ye men. Yeah, and black Phillip eats the lions from the lion’s den s Good lord like this is like they’re hard core They’re pledging allegiance to this black goat and saying that he is the Lord of land and sea and air and and their parents or just like, Hey, can you can you guys keep it down a little bit while you’re singing your Pledge of Allegiance to this Go? Yeah, so it feels very like, in a sense, while they’re doing it. But there’s this edge to it. Yeah, the direction is great. You’re like, something’s not right about that. Yeah, the whole time you’re like, these twins are fucked up but you can’t necessarily hear what they’re saying because a lot of it’s like in the background and other stuff is happening. But if you have the subtitles on you could read it. You’re like, Good Lord, that is actually Satan in this goat. Um, there. So they there’s a lot of resentment around Thomasina. The mom wants to ship off Thomasina cause she’s coming of age and she’d be better serving another family and maybe making them some money. I think that was kind of part of it. Or that we’re gonna sell her off or to be a servant or something, The mainly salary or something. It was mainly to have her not be there for another mouth to feed since they’re going to start. Yeah, but Caleb overhears this and he doesn’t want that to happen. So he takes it upon himself to go out into the woods and try Thio, get trying to rustle up some grub, rustle up some grub and hunt and Thomasina demands that he takes her with him. They go out into the woods and probably Caleb just goes out. Uh, kind of a lot. He, like, two sets off apart from Thomas And on a chase? Yeah, he sees Was it the rabbit? So that they catch a rabbit in the trap and then they seize the shifty eyed rabbit and he starts chasing after it. And Thomas seems like, whoa! And she’s on a horse and the horse is freaked out by the devil rabbit and ex her off. So Caleb is chasing this rabbit and ends up at the at the witches hut, which we’ll wait before before we get to. There is probably one of my favorite parts in the movie, especially with the subtitles on, because they’re trying to find each other in the woods after they’re separated. And Caleb is trying to whistle for Thomason. Yeah, and ah, the subtitle for it is attempted whistling. And here’s a clip from the booth. She puts his fingers in his mouth, you know, do the finger whistle. And that’s exactly what I would sound like thio on. So, yeah, he goes into the woods and he discovers this hut, and you’re like, Oh, that’s the witches hut. Now, once we get to the end of this whole thing, I’m going to discuss a couple themes that I see in this movie, and I think it’s important to mention just for for the sake of my explanation of these themes this the way this hut looks, it’s almost it’s almost the land. Yeah, it’s like a hobbit hole. It’s bit, yeah, it’s basically ah hill with with a den cut into it and Ah, and it’s it’s very has. It’s very obvious that they’re trees growing out of the top of it like this is part of the landscape. Yeah, And so you’re like, Oh, this is the witches, then. And you’ve seen the witch before that she’s this evil hag young woman like 75 year old naked. And then what comes out of the the hut is this, like, hot, witchy woman bosomy lady? Yeah, and Caleb, which is already trying to like feeling guilty about sneaking a peek at Thomason’s like pretty, you know, underdeveloped chest there through like layers and layers and layers of fabric of linen like this. Stiff, stiff, stiff linen. Yeah, this woman is like she is propped up like presenting, and Caleb is just not equipped to deal with it. He is. He is in the throes of passion. He’s he’s like, Whoa. Like, frozen in his tracks like he can’t move because he’s like, I want to fuck. That’s so bad. But I don’t know what to do. I need to run. This isn’t right. I need to find my sister. And then the which slowly walks up to him and and like, start kissing him on the mouth inappropriately. Yeah, bad trash. Like he does not consent. And then she grabbed his neck, and then it cuts. And so then the next thing Thomas and goes back to her family and like, this is the worst possible fucking thing that they lose. So I the horse I’ve got, like, a huge thing. Rice. They got some bad news. Remember how we lost that? First? I lost that first baby. Um, yes, Sam. I remember him. Did you find him out in the woods? So it’s pretty? No, not exactly that. Like I said, it’s bad news, but it’s not. It’s not the worst news because I’m here. Right. So, um, I went out in the woods with Caleb. Um, I lost him too. Yeah. Yeah. So Caleb’s gone. The horse is gone, which is just like a hugely significant loss that they never really touch on. After that, they do a little bit. He’s like, he’s like she’s like, What? Could you just go back to the Village? And he’s like, It’s a day’s ride with, ah horse and I don’t have that anymore. And I think the dog never comes back, either. Yeah, the dog gets injured in the woods, and, uh and that’s that. Yeah, so she comes back and then all of a sudden it’s really suspicious. What is up with Thomasina or Thomason? And and so it just goes down from there. Um, the the this is really kind of when the mom goes crazy descending into madness, the movie really starts ramping into, ah, fever pitch. And it’s and it’s only made worse when Caleb comes back. Yeah, because Thomason is really trying to get in the good graces of her mom. And she’s like, I’ll let me go like, take care of the goats for you or something like that. It’s dinner time, and her mom’s like, No, it can wait till morning and she goes out. Don’t worry about it. I’ll go do it anyway. Yeah, she’s trying to really ingratiate herself to the family to try to make up for this horrible tragedies that’s happened. And then Caleb comes back naked. It’s like in the rain. This is almost worse because she names and all of a sudden, Caleb’s back and naked, and he is definitely like Bewitched. So you lost him and you found him? Yeah, and so they bring him in. He is. Fever’s got a fever. He can’t talk. Yeah, And what When he does talk, he’s whispering in tongues or something like that. Yeah, And he’s like they try to bleed him to cure him because, you know, that’s the cure for everything is bleeding someone and ah So that’s kind of where it’s at, its like slowly descending into madness. And then what happens is Caleb comes out of it briefly. He comes out of it to do the most disturbing thing he possibly could write because he’s like starting to yell out that the witches attacking them and and then it just descend. This is like the most madness that happens in the movie, because to set the scene, he contorts. Caleb is in in this bed, in the in the attic, like there’s a window over him, shining light on him and he starts the family spasming. The family is around him viewing this. Yes. Oh, mother and father on each side of Thomasina nose kind of at the foot. And then the twins are off to the side. They’re all there, Caleb. Start spasming and spouting off like craziness about this witch, and they’re panicking. And so Mother, father and Thomason and start the twins start mimicking him. They they start basically doing what he’s doing as he’s doing it. Kind of so they all start praying, like, try to do kind of a group. Let’s pray the devil out situation. And they’re all saying the Lord’s prayer. Accept the twins. Their tongue has stopped. Yeah, and they can’t speak and their life. So they claim I can’t remember how it goes. I can. And then it’s like she’s now. This whole time, the twins have been accusing Thomason of being a witch because at one point, the movie Thomas and got sick of their ship and was like, Hey, you bitches, Shut up. I am a witch, And if you tell anybody I’m going to get you. Yeah, and it was like a bigger sister. Well, yeah. Lighthearted, you know? Well, not lighthearted. A serious, bigger sister moment. But a bigger sister moment. Nonetheless. Yes. So they picked the worst time to act like this is like the crucible part. This is like the party crucible where the little girl’s air acting bewitched. And it’s at this moment that they decided to do that. But also, they might actually be affected. Well, they’re not effective. Very hard to tell. They’re basically probably being told by Satan to do this. It’s definitely a good trick to trick the family, Which is where Satan works is grayer. And and so the gray area, Bryce, And then Caleb is it doesn’t help. Like they’re praying, Caleb. Eventually, like, from when he talks about, he sees Jesus Christ and welcome you into his bosom and kind of like in ecstasy. Yeah. Like in in, like, religious ecstasy and dies. Yeah, he he basically says, Oh, Lord, here you are. You’re here. You’re here to take me. Take me, lord, and then and then just fucking dice. Yeah, And like in the most dramatic fashion you possibly can and you know what an act, man, This all the kids in this. All the actors, all the actresses. Brilliant, Fantastic. I can’t believe they got this out of what appears to be a 10 to 12 year old boy. So? So that happens. And then what? Just in very quick succession, William accuses Thomason of being a witch. And this is the greatest thing. We just watched it again. Thomason, you know, he says, like you’re a witch and she’s like, No, I’m not like, Why don’t why won’t you believe me? And he’s like, Tell me the truth. If you tell me the truth, we can get rid of it. Yeah, she’s like, she’s like, You want me to tell you the truth? And then she goes, is the best moment of nails him to a cross because she just points out like you did all these things, these horrible things to me. Like you let Mom believe that I stole this silver cup and you let her and you are terrible at farming. You took Caleb out in the morning and on. I took the blame for that too. Yeah, and ah, they she, like, points out these terrible at farming. He’s terrible at hunting the only thing he’s good at is chopping wood. And, like just all this, like laying out the dirty laundry and Lee unsaid bag. You want to talk truth, Let’s talk truth. And so he, of course, hits her and eventually Oh, and then she reveals. She points out like, Hey, your two twins are communicating on the regular with this goat and singing songs to him. So I think we all know who the witches are there these these fucking kids air evil and they’re lying to you. And so it’s kind of like a moment of realization for William. But in the end he puts Thomason and the twins into the barn. The remaining children nails him in there. Hey, nails like them in with wood planks and says, like we’re gonna figure this out. You guys sit out here because my wife and I need some time to think. And then the ending is just the most. It’s like the best delivery of this story because black Philip gets a man I could talk so long about this anti black bill gets out. Um, William confronts Black Philip the scene. Okay, the scene after he puts the kids in the barn. He’s like praying to God in, like despair. And he’s like, Just forgive me of my pride like I’m This is all my fault. Like I tried my best. Like, what is going on? Please save us. Meanwhile, in the shed, the kids are sitting out in the shed in the dark at night, and they hear something jump onto the roof. And then and then they watch it work its way, and you don’t get to see it. But they watch it, work its way into the shed with the And then Then there’s a scene of this old witch basically slurping, slurping milk out of the goats. Ted. Yeah, and this isn’t the other every time they show the which is great, because stroll which and they go on full on which cackle. Here’s here’s a clip, Theo. I love it. Okay, look, I just got goose bumps so bad. Yeah, it’s like, Oh, that is scary. That is frightening. Seeing a like evil. Dag, that’s like eating readily children. Definitely, definitely bad person. Yeah, so? So that’s all happening, Williams, like praying to the Lord and really, sincerely, like in despair. And then when this thing is such an interesting choice. Such an interesting choices as all the is like the family gets picked off one by one, basically black Philip gets out. It’s already been established like something ain’t right with Black Phillip and the horns on this go. Yeah, black Philip attacks Williams like stabs Um, like horribly in the abdomen. William is immediately bleeding from the mouth from this. He’s going to die now and he lifts up. This this act. It’s like the moment in sightings. Exciting. No signs. Signs where? Swear way, mayor. Like swing away, Merrill. Except instead of chopping down on black Phillip, this is such an interesting choice. And I love it so much he throws the axe down and then he says, I think this line is chills corruption. Thou art my father, and then he falls down. And then that the goat attacks Oh, yeah, pushes them into the wood pile and this giant like ton of wood falls on Williams. So in the last moment of his life and this is so significant in there in their theology he dies chopping wood. That dude he dies doing the one like in the one thing he was good at. So he black feel kills him. And in that moment, he basically submitted to write Satan. He said, Corruption, our my father. So he gave up. Yeah, and it’s like in their theology and in their belief system. That’s just it’s the worst thing, the worst thing you can do, like he evil one in that moment. And then it shows the mother she comes upon this scene and she sees she sees the shed that’s torn apart. And Thomason is basically passed out hanging out of the ship well before that, actually. So in the night that the which appears to the children, there’s lots of stuff that happens. And Kathlyn Katherine Katherine the mother, um, goes downstairs, and she’s greeted by her two missing children. Yeah, Caleb and Sam. And like a love dream, almost. Caleb’s holding Sam in the candlelight, and she’s like, Oh, my God, my children have come back to me and Caleb starts talking to Catherine in a whisper. Yeah, and it’s like, This is what you want. Yeah, it’s like we can we can come back to any time like kind of this thing and and Catherine, take Sam, and he’s crying. So he goes to breast feed her, and then it cuts to reality. And it shows this raven pecking mattered tit and, like, just really been. She’s in the throes of of motherly ecstasy. Like she’s like, Yea, I have my children back. This looks like Poland on her flash. Really alarming stuff. And then so yeah, then cut to, um, Williams dead. And Catherine comes out and she sees this shed. Or this barn is, like, completely tort apart. Like it looks like an explosion happened and all the dead goats around it. Yeah, and then it’s It’s just Thomas. And the twins aren’t They’re twins are gone. Twins like disappeared or something. It’s never talked about where the twins go now. Wow. I mean, the twins made a pact. You sing. I assume the twins are just gone. Yeah, well, I assume they’ve not not dead and gone, but, like they like, the devil got them. Yeah, And then Mother attacks Thomason. And this is another moment that just really is just this great payoff between the characters because it just ends in tragedy. And the mother is like attacking her and Thomas. Um grabs a knife like grabbed like some farm implement slashes her and then because her mother’s really attacking her, like really trying to do her harm killer And she she cuts her mother in the face in the face. Beats her, and she’s like It’s the most heartbreaking moment because Thomason, even in this moment, says, I love you. Love she so helpless in this moment, it’s basically everything in this movie is happening to Thomason. Yeah, she’s this innocent girl, true believer. She’s really trying to do her best, and it all points to her as being the reason for it. And it’s not right. So her mom is trying to kill her, and then she has to. She has to kill her mom to save herself, and when she does, you can tell a switch flips. You know, Rick Intel, because by then, everything gone have ordered her entire family is gone or dead right at that at that point and then So the the final ending is so Thomason in a daze, goes into the house and how to sleep and falls asleep. And when she wakes up, she goes back out into the barn and black Phillip is sitting by the barn just waiting for, and they both go in to the barn. They have a discussion, and she she goes to him and and says, like, you know, talk to me like you talk to Thio twins. The twins like, speak to me. Can you understand my English? And then this is the iconic moment in the film. I pulled the clip. I conjure thee to speak to me. Speakers had to speak to Jonas and mercy. Just I understand my English time and someday, Well, this won’t what can soak it. What’s it like with taste? But but British press? What’s that like? Yes, I cannot underline how great the scene is. It’s It’s so it’s so artistically done to the choices that they make for Satan. But I’m always really interested in depictions of Satan. Yeah, and film in an art. And this is one of the more interesting ones because it’s she’s talking to a goat. You don’t actually see the goat in this scene. And when black Philip quote unquote starts talking to her, it shows like the very tips of an actual man. Yeah, they’re so you see, like walking the other TSC like that’s the boots to great way to say it. You see the boots and then you see him like walk around behind her and he’s like in the darkness, and you can barely barely make out an outline of, like, a face or person. And he’s like just offering her the pleasures of life, you know? And just that the phrase wouldst thou like the taste of butter, and it’s so simple and back in those times that must have been like that is so you got some butter. Wait a minute. What? Well, I mean, you say butter. I don’t think it’s probably rare. I think that butter was like a thing. But to just eat it to talk about the richness of right. What he can offer is like, Do you like the taste of butter? It’s you like nice clothes you wanna live deliciously. It’s just such an interesting way to phrase that it’s beautiful and and then she submits. She’s like, Yeah, yeah, I don’t know how to sign. And he’s like he’s like, all guide your hand and then you see, like another outline of him, like kind of collect, clutching her like you don’t really see. You don’t really see him, but you get the impression that he’s touching her. It’s I honestly believe, that the only brace one of them or underutilized characters in in art is Lucifer or Satan like an actual, just a depiction of Satan himself. Like every time that they do it. There’s so much interesting stuff you can do, like, you know, if you go back in history to like Paradise Lost by Milton like the most interesting character. And that is Satan like That’s the only interesting one because like you got God, which is perfect. So boring, boring. You got Adam and Eve, which are perfect and innocent, which is boring. And then you got Satan That’s got beef. Yeah, and in perfect and and And Has intelligence. Yeah, you know, like he has, like, that’s what he gives to Adam and Eve. He gives them the gift of intelligence. You have the ultimate evil, ultimate intelligence. He knows everything. He’s basically like God any. And he has. He is also powerful, yet he’s he’s the bad guy to God’s good guy. Yeah, yeah, No. So anyway, before we get into the themes on this. I do want to give a shout out to Dust. And Goebel, who does who has given us some great artwork for Pumpkin Head and also now for the witch. It’s ah, you can check out his his artwork for the witch. He he drew, um, black black Philip for us and and it’s ah, I think it’s, I think, his It says the witch lived deliciously. Yeah, and it’s beautiful and you check it out. You should check him out. His instagram is at D Goebel. That’s G o E B E l 00 on instagram. You check out his ah, his art. And you know, if you have, if you have professional artwork needs or if you have, like, fan fan stuff that you want, want done, I’m sure he can. You can help you out to get a hold of him. Yeah, big thanks to you. Really, really awesome. That is very, very generous toe. Help us out with the artwork. And so, yeah, this let’s let’s talk about the films where I knew that this was gonna be a long episode, because there’s so much to talk about it. It’s so interesting to meet like each each one of these points, like I could talk about Caleb and his dealing with hormones. And, like attraction. I could talk about William and his like struggles with faith and trying to support this family. And, like every single character, is interested. It’s E. I mean, even the titles Interesting. The two V’s. I looked up, I looked up. Why it was why was spelled the vich V v i. T. C h instead of the which apparently, in this time in, you know, the early 16 hundreds. W. Was not in common use. Yeah, they didn’t have it, so they made it with two V’s. Yeah, and it’s like a German thing, too. I mean, like, I think it’s also just a German pronunciation of the letter W so that just six to the bank then, like spelling, was not standardized. That’s something that we don’t have. Like even even in like the 18 hundreds. Spelling was not standardized at all, especially in American English. So that just speaks to the effort’s gone forth to make this, you know, a true period piece. So there’s a bunch of themes in this that I’d like to at least touch on one of which is this is a strongly feminine or or feminist film. To me, I This the shame that that that women are made to feel about their body and have been, is so is so prevail int prevalent, relevant, relevant in this in this movie and and being and the the Thomas and being blamed for everything taking on all of the yet and also like the value or superstition of the value of a woman. Two men to where it’s revealed at the very end. When the mother is attacking Thomason, that this whole time she’s like You’re a slut and you’re you’re trying to seduce my son and my husband away from me. It’s like this undercurrent of like sexuality our hour of the three of being of being a female and and, you know, this is almost the Adam and Eve Eden story told in reverse. You know, it’s like at the end instead of at the beginning. She accepts the knowledge she does the deal with the devil. You know, she and and she’s what she’s given in return is freedom. Like now she’s truly free. She goes out into the woods. She’s naked. She no longer has to has to worry about being ashamed of her body. She rises into the air. That’s the ultimate freedom. Being able to fly like she’s. She’s done with this life of being everybody’s bitch of of being, you know, blamed for everything. And now she has the power. She’s the one who and by the way, the witches in this movie have all the power throughout the whole movie, most true, like they are in control the whole way through there. And they’re the female force. The other one I wanted to talk about so that I find the most interesting about this. This this film which is which is which is, um, you know, in a time where women, you know, historically were were burned at the stake for being what they weren’t in this movie, that which is actually do exist and they have the power. Yeah, the other one is nature versus versus order, you know, chaos and order. Right? Which is which is, um Yeah, that’s also kind of a part of the the lore of the devil on dhe witches. Right, is that it’s very based in nature to right that is the true at a concept of Satan is that he’s the Lord of Earth. Yes, like God is the god of the heavens and everything in the universe. But Satan is put on Earth to rule, like the worst impulses of man and of nature, right? Like And that’s that’s kind of It’s so interesting because because nature is cast as evil and nature as well as we know, nature is not evil. Nature just is. It is there. It may appear evil and very harsh because that’s that’s the world, and I can see how someone would construe it that way. But ah, but this trying to eke out into the wilderness and carve your order into it does in this situation does not work out there trying to trying to force the land, to give them what what they need. But the witches, they’re doing just fine. Living basically in the land like they’re like their hovel is just a hill that they carved into the land. And they’re just stealing babies and rub them all over themselves, doing doing fine, like they got everything they need. Yeah, obviously the land will provide babies for them to mash right rub on their body. Yeah. When you need to mortar and pestle yourself a baby, just go on, Get one. Satan’s there for you. He’s got you covered. Uh, yeah. Did you? Oh, and the other one was Everyone in this movie purports to be everyone being the family Everyone in this family purports to and hopes to be so pious. But the whole way along there, they’re lying. There’s all these little lies and all these little imperfections that make each one of them. D’oh! The mom, the dad, the the brother, The cyst, like they’re all like the sister messes with the twins. She shouldn’t have done that. Like every one of them is deserving of some sort of retribution. Yeah, I mean, this is like, Okay, so I’m locking my Christian brain or unlocking kind of a theological part of it. This is a theme that I found really interesting Is the closeness of sin. Yes, that it’s right. There were always trying and everyone’s in perfect, but they’re trying so hard to be perfect. Pretty much everyone succumbs except Caleb Caleb. Yes, he does. It does like he doesn’t run away from the witch, but also, you know, he’s kind of bewitched and like he’s lustful. He’s also preyed upon by the witch. But when he comes back and he he has the kind of a deathbed moment of redemption, like he accepts the Lord and his Lord and Savior. And when he dies, he saved like that is, that is the day that the heavy implication and everyone else succumbs. And the most heartbreaking one is William, that he is the pillar of strength and the family. And in the final moment, like the moment on his, he’s going to die. He could kill Black Philip. He almost made us with this acts that he’s like, you know, swing away Merrill moment and he decides like he has. He decides to let a happy decides to let it happen, and he’s not even really worked upon by the devil. It’s just literally his despair. It would just be easier to give up. And in that moment he decides, and it’s so so be it a close. So in that theology, and in that that those rules of like what? What you say on your deathbed or like any given moment, your decision can lead you to damnation. They all decide to go down that road even though all of them are pious love, Homer. They’re good people, too. It’s not even I can’t even say that They’re necessarily hypocrites. Even Williams actions therefore the best interest of this family. He’s not like lying for the sake of lying, his lying to try toe to try and save. Whoever is in the is in the crosshairs of the mom at that moment. Yeah, he wants to like a very good reason. His his wife is despairing. Yeah, about this lost baby. Trying to smooth things is a bad time to come to her and say, like, Hey, you know this treasured cup like we really got to sell it right now. So he’s trying to, like, go through these actions to try to protect yes, the family, both his wife’s emotions and his family’s well being. So even like the hypocrisy unquote unquote that occurs in the family like it’s all well meaning it is all and and it’s just, you know, I think it’s a great example of it is in our nature to sin. You know, we way we are, there’s no way to escape it, right. It’s very hard. Even Caleb, who is basically sinless, lust after his sister a little bit and feels remorse for it. And it’s to do the people of that time the prospect of witches and black magic and Satan’s influence. And even like when you put it in that context. For modern viewers, it’s still terrifying. Yeah, and it must have been terrifying to them back then. Oh, my God. Specter of evil magic and which is working against you. You’re in a new land with new diseases, new shit. Noo noo animals like you got you left your family behind and across a huge ocean like it’s just amazing that you’re even here And now nature is trying to get you, and the only way you can rationalize it is there’s got to be fucking watches after me like this point. I’m just insane. So the ending, ending, ending is Thomas in, You know, signing Satan’s book and walking into the woods, and it ends in this black mass, and it’s really a beautiful ending It is, And it it’s probably the only depiction that I know of of what is historically described as a black mass and the pictures that you see of a group of naked women and witches floating in the air in a circle and Justine ecstasy because the kind of the lower behind witches is you signed Satan’s book and you become his concubine more or less like you are a witch. If you’ve had sex with Satan like that’s what historically that means. Is that okay? Yeah. Hey, that that woman’s a which I know because I think she fucks Satan who, like that’s quite an accusation. Yeah, and ah, that’s really interesting. Yeah, And you know, by you’ve been through this, like, following up on this feminine, feminist sort of agenda of the whole thing, you know, she doesn’t have to be scared anymore. Now she gets to be the terror, you know? Now she accept ce it and revels in it, and it never, never like it never shows the bad side of being a witch other than, you know, mashing up babies and rubbing against yourself like the whole part of the lore of Satan is that he is a deceiver. And whatever deal you make with him is a very bad deal on your for you. Are you saying it’s sweet? Are you saying Bryce that it’s sweet to be a witch because you get to kiss little kids? Is that what you’re saying? No, I’m saying, like it doesn’t show the bad part of being a witch. I’m disgusted by you. That is disgusting. I guess I’m not being clear on what I’m trying to say. But you I think of the undercurrent is like she she submits, she becomes a witch, and the audience is left not only with the with the, um, aftershock of what happened with family, but also there’s an understanding that this is not gonna work out good for Thomason like this is still the bad choice. I mean, you know, who’s to say it seems like a sweet deal? Let’s go with it. You know, uh, corruption. Thou art my father. Yeah. All right. So that’s the witch fantastic movie. I mean, so final recommendations for this. I think everyone should see this movie. There’s some people that aren’t gonna like it. This is This is too heavy of a ride for many people for sure. Like there are people who will just not be able to handle the 1st 10 minutes of this. Yeah, and then it is just is not gonna end up good. See, that’s the thing. I I feel like it’s such a great choice. Two put throw down the stakes right away, down the stakes right away And it like All right, yes. This is a super accurate historical drama, but there is, ah, supernatural, supernatural Hagee, which that’s gonna eat, baby. So for those people, that kind of like the more gory or, you know slash cherie horror, there’s, you know, there’s an undercurrent of that Got you covered. That’s so interesting. So it’s a great degree. I’ve had such a good time. Just dissecting it and going back over it, like this movie is. So is such a dead ringer for just a very satisfying, well made movie. Um, I’ll go back to a year after year. I really Well, is it true truth transcendent 10. And this week, as of So this is released on Wednesday and Thursday Friday, Robert Eggers is coming out with his sophomore film, which is the lighthouse, which was super excited about seeing. So so go see the lighthouse this weekend. Go see it. We’re going to be reviewing. And I think as Willem Dafoe in it, Yeah. Willem Dafoe and, um, the vampire from from Twilight Series. What’s his name? Robert Pattinson. Okay. Robert Patton. Oh, wow. It’s been a while. Hot minutes since I seen him. He’s been in stuff, Just not stuff you’ve watched. Oh, okay. Yeah, that makes, um so, yeah, check it out. It’s streaming on Netflix. Watch this and then watch the lighthouse this week. Yeah. Okay. Moving on to tag lines. Years, tagline. How many you got? Four memory you got? I think I have three year four. Okay. Taglines is a game when we come up with alternate taglines for the movie that we’re reviewing, and I think I got some good ones. Okay, you go first. The witch. What’s now, like the taste of deez nuts. It was great because I did not expect it all like, oh, you corn ball. And then you said these nuts was on board. Ah, the witch eating babies and taking names. Uh, okay. The witch, loosely based on the actual life of Stevie Nicks. All right? The witch, the Oregon Trail. But instead of dysentery. You die from Satan. That’s good. The witch, which is all float down here. Look. All right, That one. Maybe not somewhere, right? I was trying. I probably could have worked that out better. It’s an it referenced people. Yeah, I get it, You know? Okay. The witch, the rave in the writing desk and the titty Well, cause she’s sitting at the writing desk and the ravens picking out her at her boob. I’ll get the reference. Is that a reference to something raving in the raven and the writing desk? Oh, yeah, it’s a It’s a It’s just a piece of cannon literature, that’s all. Um oh, yeah. All right. This will be a performance based one. The witch. You chopped 16 tons. What do you get? Another day older and your family is taken apart by satanic influences. Who would have thought that the which would have made for good tagline me? I mean, that’s Ah, it’s a great Do you have one last one? No, I don’t. I apologize, though I was thinking about it was like the raven and the writing desk. I think was actually the poem that the Mad Hatter gave in Alice in Wonderland. Uh, what is the raven and the right? Like, what’s the difference between what is the similarity between the raven and a writing desk? It’s like, what? I don’t know. Well, as it turns out, it’s the titty. Okay. There. You, um Okay. Next game. I mean, playing. I don’t game. I don’t know anything about this. What? Just called. What did they call, which is a witch, which is a witch? No music for this one. We’ll come up with something. Hold on. Hold on. Let’s play. Which is a way. Okay, so which is a Which is I’m going to give you two actresses, five sets of two actresses, and you have to pick which one has played a witch. Oh, that’s a cool game. Good for you. Look at you. Okay. Which is a witch? Okay. Sandra Bullock or Christina Hendricks. Oh, I know this for sure. Although Christina Hendricks would make a valuable is witch. Uh, no, Sandra Bullock was I believe in practical magic. Yeah, you’re right. Okay, I got one. Okay. Number to Michelle Pfeiffer or Kristen Stewart. Oh, that’s that’s Ah, away. I’m thinking of Dunst’s. But Stuart was the girl from the we just mentioned that Twilight Twilight. Okay. And eso Kristen Stewart and Michelle Pfeiffer. Miss Michelle Pfeiffer. I think Michelle Pfeiffer was in something about Salem. I’m gonna I’m gonna go with massage Michelle Pfeiffer, even though I’m sure Stuart has been in more witchy movie. Pfeiffer, you’re correct. Okay. And when l. Pfeiffer was in Witches of Eastwick? Yeah. Yeah, it is. Yeah. Okay. All right. These air easier than I thought I was. When you were over, I was overestimating your ability to not remember actresses or move Well. Well, there you go. That’s what you get for. Underestimate. All right. Next is why known a writer or Neve Campbell? Oh, that’s yeah. I mean, so the I’ll tell. I’ll give you this. You’ve done an excellent job of pairing up women who seem like they should have been witches because well known writer obviously seems like she should have been a witch at some point. But no, it’s Nev Campbell. All right. Fuck. All right, well, we’ve already won, but here’s the next to ah, Alyson Hannigan. Or are very plaza. See, now I don’t know who Alyson Hannigan is. Can you help me out. American pie issues The one that says one time at band camp. Oh, hello And Aubrey Plaza. Aubrey Plaza again is a very Wynonna Ryder. Ask choice. But, ah, um I think given her the Alyson Hannigan. Honey, I think she was probably probably hit something in one of the It was she in any of the, ah, scary movies? I’m going to say her. Well, I’m terrible. Okay, You’re right. Alyson Hannigan played a witch in Buffy the Vampire Slayer TV series. OK, Buffy, the vampire layer is what we prefer to last one. I hope this one’s the hardest one. All right, We’ll see. I’ll see. I’ll take it as the proof of concept if you don’t get this one right. All right. Milla Jovovich and Famke Janssen. Who’s Famke Janssen? Oh, you know. No, she was a model. And also she was Jean Grain. The original run of X Men movies. You would probably recognize her if you saw her. See now Milla Jovovich. Ah, star of all the resident evil movies and a few other movies I could see. And the fifth element? Uh, I could see her, like accidentally being like, ah, which you know, like by name. Like she plays a character who is technically, technically a witch the same way Yoda’s. I don’t know that for sure. We had what? A wizard? A wizard. But, um mmm. This is tough. I’m gonna go with the girl. Who? I don’t know, because I don’t think Milla Jovovich has played away. Damn it. Okay, all right. You got all you got, Every single fucking one of letting go. So Famke Janssen was a witch in Hansel and Gretel. Witch hunters? Yeah. Oh, I watched that. You did. I did see that. Yeah, well, she was The witch was not good. Shocking. Okay, So that waas which is what I should have waited. We have to attack that button, which is a So that’s our show for today. What A failed game. Will never play that one fucking again. I love that game. What are you talking about? I had a great time. Yeah, that one was kind of cobbled together at last second. It’s Some of those were so obvious. Like I was really hoping you weren’t gonna get Sandra Bullock. I thought that was gonna be the one practical Magic is okay. so a practical magic, fun, funny story. Uh, I think the first fight Carrie and I ever had was over that. So I’m dating my now wife like, 11 years ago, and, ah, and I’m over at her house. So I have an apartment. She’s living with her parents at the time it were in early twenties, and Ah, and I’m at her parent’s house because they have food. And I’m a bachelor who has peanut butter, and I’m getting tired of peanut butter. So I’m over at her house and, ah, practical magic comes on and cares like I loved his movie. And I’m like, This movie sucks. I’ve never seen such a visual response before or since. She’s like It does not suck. Get out House. Wait, what it does suck number one. So I dug in. Obviously, I was like, How can you say this movie doesn’t suck? Look at this movie, Boo And she’s And then she’s like, How can you say it turned into a big thing, you know? And then, ah, I think I probably charmed my way into getting to eat because I, you know, I could do that with older women. So I was like, Okay, she’s trying to make me leave because I think practical magic sucks. And then we ate a tense dinner or something like that, but yeah. Practical magic. Yeah. I still haven’t seen us fight. It’s a Sandra Bullock, and, uh, some other big notable no Tom Cruise is ex wife. Oh, Nicole Kidman in big notable wasn’t that Nicole Kidman was which twice she was in practical magic and Bewitched. Oh, dude. Oh, you know that’s something else. All right. So thank you for listening to the show special thanks to Dust and Goble again our artist for the show which graciously made our cover art for the post episode check out, um, the cover art for this, but also for pumpkin head. He did a great cover for Pumpkinhead. Parfitt has pumpkinhead. And what his name Hendrik Lance Lance Hendrickson like it behind the scenes picture of them of them, like together viewing a smartphone and like the put in a sharing some headphones, some ear pods watching. So great. Anyways, thank you so much dust in for doing that for us. That’s D Goebel 00 on Instagram. Yes, it’s at D g o e b E l 00 on instagram. Check him out. Also special things to all our patrons for supporting the show. Um, please, if you want to support the show, you could do it financially. But also you could do it just by sharing with a friend. Right now is the Halloween season. People are watching horror movies, pleased to share the podcast with other people. Also leave a rating on Apple podcast so you can get up to our goal of 200 ratings. Definitely do that. And then also, you know, check out our Facebook page or any of our social media. But mostly Facebook page, because Bryce has been doing 31 days of horror throughout October and 31 days of horror movie talk specifically, yeah, horror movie talk. So he’s been sharing past episodes that, you know, we’ll get you in the in the mood for the season. The last one that I shared well, not as of this of this post, but, um, the last one that I shared yesterday as of this recording was our review of Sleep Away Camp and I I revisited the first part of that. That is a great episode. A tragic boating accident. And it has, you know, one of my very, very favorite clips from that episode. Damn. Look at those hot children. I’ve been, like, I’ve been told by people that I should be very mad at you. Oh, for for this for free for constantly dragging that clip out. See, that’s the thing is the reason why I get to do that is that I just pulled the clip. Yeah, in that same episode, like, immediately after that clip, I say something that’s very, very bad taken out of context. But I wouldn’t do that to you. And I haven’t. Yeah, but that’s also Well, it’s hilarious because you’re my friend, or so I thought so. I mean, what what’s your opinion on children, though? God damn. Look at those hot children. That’s not my opinion on children. That’s taken completely out of context. I, uh Yeah, um, yeah, that clip like that. Knowing that in that episode I think you could have pulled a clip where I said, um, I said something about their hot little ass is Yeah, And then there is something else of that. Oh, yeah, They they call them Baldies. Where I come from, he’s where I come from. Yeah, Steven minute made mention of that on that post. Yeah, that was That was a really fun episode. You guys should go back and check out some of our some of our old stuff and check out our Facebook page because we will just give it to you. Last plugs. If you go to our website horror movie talk dot com, you’ll also see a button in the banner for our M Thio links to Amazon. If you click through there and buy anything on, Amazon will get a little cut of that. One more thing. Shutter. It is how you stream shudder. Ah, using HMT at. Check out the code HMT it. Check out to stream tons and tons of classic horror classics and new originals and original siris on Shutter so shutter dot com and HMT A checkout gets you 30 days of free viewing. That’s the whole month. Yeah, I’ve got my own personal 31 days of horror movie films going on right now and off of Shutter. I’ve watched Halloween four and five and we’ll probably be watching more some Jell O that I need to catch up on. I think they have. I think they have, like, most of the Hillary’s or serious on. They’re still, don’t they? I e don’t recall. I think they have the blob on there. And I would like to watch the s. So check that out. Thank you so much for listening. I know that there’s just a couple of you left. Um, you’re our favorite. You you right there. You’re the That’s listening. Uh, we will do unspeakable things for you because you’re listening to the very end. So we love you and we’ll see you next week Way. Love you.

Loomis

As previously mentioned, Dr. Loomis is really here just to spout off about how many times he shot Michael Myers and wax philisophical about the nature of Michael’s evil.

A lot of his dialogue expanding the lore of the Halloween franchise. When the word Samhain is scrawled on the blackboard in blood, Dr. Loomis explains the significance.

Later on in the car with his colleague, he explains the festival of Samhain as a druid ritual involving human sacrifice. Mentions of witches and ghouls might be there to set up the expanded halloween universe we would only get to see in Halloween 3: Season of the Witch.

The opening titles

One of the coolest parts in the movie is the opening credits, the jack-o-lantern opening up into a skull will probably haunt my nightmares.

The first part of the movie subverts expectations quite a bit. The first opportunity that Michael Myers has to kill someone is an elderly couple, but he ends up walking away with their knife and murders a teenage girl instead.

Also early on, there is a fake out death of “Michael Myers” that later is found out to be just some random kid.

The Hospital

The bulk of Halloween 2 (1981) takes place in a hospital. From the looks of it, an abandoned hospital. However, this doesn’t keep the skeleton crew of seven of so doctors and nurses from being there.

I mispoke. Doctor. There was one doctor in the entire hospital. A drunk doctor.

How many reasons do you need to move away from Haddonfield?

Deaths in Halloween II (1981)

As with any slasher, there are several interesting deaths:

• Death by claw hammer
• Death by boiling someones head
• Death by scalpel
• Death by needle in the eye
• Good old fashioned knife-stabbing
• Being Blowed up

Pacing

The pacing of the Halloween movies feel really slow compared to modern horror movies, but it does a good job of keeping your attention. This is done mostly from the novelty of the kills, and certainly not from character development.

Laurie Strode is Michael’s Sister

Laurie is in this movie, but only is in scenes for about 20 minutes of the run time.

Her main purpose, other than continuity, is to lend her character to the films most shocking spoiler: Laurie Strode is Michael Myers’ sister.

Yeah. Meh.

This came a year after Empire Strikes Back, so the cynical part of me says that they were just ripping off the idea. But the idea was easily retconned in later films. In fact the 2018 Halloween completely disregards this film.

The Ending of Halloween II

There is a final standoff between Michael, Laurie, and Dr. Loomis. Laurie ends up blinding Michael by shooting him in the eyes. This results in the iconic image of blood tears coming down Michael’s mask.

In the end, Michael gets blown up by a kamikaze attack by Dr. Loomis.

We see Michael burning to a crisp laying motionless on the floor for several minutes. The film goes to great lengths to communicate finality. However, nothing resurrects villains better than earning potential. Michael Myers and even Dr. Loomis star in many of the later Halloween films.

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Goto multi mental mortgage dot com slash hmt Equal housing lender Licensed in all 50 states. A. M M. L s Consumer access orig number 69 69 Hello and welcome to horror movie talk and opinionated and accidentally funny Horror Movie review. Show your panel of expert hosts each week are Dr Bryce Hansen, who holds a phD in spook ology, and Professor David Day, the foremost expert in Scare No nose. New theatrical releases always get priority, but we also review older horror movies both good and whole. Horrible. Uh, whoa ho is like a do cadi or something. What were you just now? And I’m David Day Welcome. Welcome to our little show. Check us out at our website horror movie talk dot com. There you’ll find links dollar, social Media and past episodes and our blog’s on or movie topics. We’ll talk about our latest blog’s coming up, You should know, and we want you to know that we post every Wednesday So please subscribe And, more importantly, leave a rating if you like us. If you don’t like us, leave a rating like you like us. Anyways. We’re trying to get to 200 ratings by the two year point of the podcast, and we’re coming up on month 15 something, something like that. So we got a ways to go. Um, also, if your ah wanting to add a little more positivity into your life, check out the positive a cast by David Day, a daily short podcast. 3 to 5 minutes of little nuggets of positivity that you condemn posit in your brain. Right now, I’ve been focusing on my Siri’s, continuing the series where I just look around the room and try and find things within the room to spin positively. I was talking to an old friend and he said It’s like listening to use describing it to his wife. And he said, It’s like listening to what? Adam? What can’t Adam complain about? But in reverse? What? What can’t David talk nicely about, huh? All right, so anyway, let’s get onto the show. We got a great show today. We’re gonna thio today to kick fuck out in. Trust me. We’ve got a great show. Great. Fucking fuck. It was really It’s a really good show. Once we edit it today to kick off, October will be talking about Halloween. Two more like Halloween. Boo. Thesis is the 1982 Halloween to not to be confused with the Rob Zombie 2009 Halloween, too. Yeah, I believe so. So every episode we start out by giving a brief review and our score for the movie. We score on a scale of 1 to 10 1 being a miserable dredge where it makes you angry. Five being a completely average film that hits all the expected marks and 10 being so good that it transcends genre boundaries after we give our score will get into spoilers and take a deeper dive into what we liked and hated about the film. And then later we’re gonna play a game called Attack of the Rotten Tomatoes game. Oh, Lila. And this is a themed one. It’s going to be Halloween versus Nightmare on Elm Street. Oh, we’re gonna pit the two franchises franchises together and you have to pick which one scored higher on run tomatoes. Yeah, Okay, that’s cool. I I actually that’s that’s it. Use that nightmare on Elm Street. I I just got done a now hour ago. I just got done watching. Ah, nightmare on Elm Street. Three Dream Warrior An hour ago Way started watching it last night, and then we fell asleep. So Okay, picked it back up in the morning. You say you got up like five in the morning. That’s right watching We’re committed to horror movies here. Horror movie talk. That’s right. Just 24 7 were watching horror movies. Even though we only review one a week, It’s It is October. We? It’s time to start watching horror movies 24 hours a day. I don’t know. A few people know this, but that’s what we do in October. All right, well, let’s get into the movie. Halloween 2008 would have you believe that Halloween to never happen. But it did happen. We watched it and we’re gonna talk about it. God damn it. Yeah, Here is the trailer. I shot him six times. I am not Universal Pictures. Presents Halloween. Two more of the night he came home way. There was nothing within him, neither conscious. No reason that wasn’t even remotely human. Some kind of a joke. I’ve been figured treated a depth tonight way. Tell Mr Garrett we’re having trouble with. There is no place to hide. He will always find you. It’s a Celtic word Remains the Lord of the Dead Weight. We’re still here. We’ll be with you. Wait. Two more of the night e came home. What? Halloween. To Maura of that type of thing. Okay. A trailer was rid Ebru. Ridiculous. It was absolutely absurd. And the audio, I mean, yeah, it’s probably a lot more effective actually. Watching it, I would assume there’s just a lot of shots going off. Well, Pau, Pau, Pau, Pau Pau will provide the the link to the YouTube. Speaking of the of the trailer on the post in the episode notes. Speaking of shots going off, I gotta warn you, Bryce, I’m awfully gassy this morning, and it is it is a totally different brand. Last night, my wife was remarked is saying, I’ve never smelled that out of you before. I hate it. So we’re just gonna play a game? Yeah. I mean, we were We were talking about this yesterday on steam. Check on in Really steamed check. Real steaming hot steam chat. Uh, yeah, both me and David are experiencing a weird digestive moment. I won’t go too far into it, but just to let you know, it’s it’s no wonder we don’t wantto time offend the delicate sensibilities of of our audience. But we have some very beautiful female listeners. Yeah, that I just don’t want to upset, but we’ve been taking some hot shits. I like really hot. Like like shitting stomach acid burn. Okay, let’s just let’s just dial it back. And so telling David how it felt like my anise was being digested. All right, thank you very much. This disturbed David. It’s not That disturbs me. It’s just that I don’t I’m just not interested. Just does not want a picture. My acid swollen. Yeah, well, there it is for everyone. We you know, I don’t complimenting our listeners and how beautiful some of the some of the ladies are. I’m sure we got beautiful Mente love this shit. I’m sure we got a really beautiful men to, uh, wait, Magnus, That’s that’s for damn sure. Where was he from? Sweden. Yeah, Swedish god of a man. And for some reason, he likes the show. I don’t know what we did. I think we should We should do everything in our power to make Magnus a, uh, an Internet celebrity. Uh, I don’t think it’ll be that hard. It’s not that much of a stretch, you know, it’s just some guy in Sweden. Pretty much anyone in Sweden could probably become an Internet celebrity if they hosted some videos and deal with this place. Why is everyone so beautiful? I don’t know. Howling too. I mean, I got a bunch of Norwegian blood and I look like this, So Yeah, something about I am cold, I guess. All right. Halloween to ah, hello into Could be found on HBO now slash Go. Right now. HBO Now. Now, um, which is unfortunate because I just canceled my subscription last week. I did notice that. And, uh, so we had to rent it. And it’s on never Where else? Where you do that type of thing? Yeah, it’s just not on Amazon, but it is on YouTube. No, it’s on Amazon to rent. I don’t I don’t think it is because Amazon We watched it. Really? It refers me it z It basically tells me, Hey, you got a go ahead and subscribe to HBO. Go. If you want to watch this movie is what it says. There’s a couple options you could subscribe to HBO go or rent it or buy it. That’s weird that it doesn’t even offer me the option. Amazon is weird because it’ll have duplicate listing right of the same movie, weirdly inconsistent, and sometimes it’s free. And then you can find another version that’s not free is really annoying. So, uh, going to picks up right? Where? Halloween. The 1st 1 left off. Um, like, literally minutes after the first of the three movies called Halloween, Right. This is the sequel of Alan. Um, Michael Myers disappears from the lawn after being shot by Dr Loomis six times. Why do I remember it with six times? You ask? Because Dr Loomis remind you every time he’s on screen that he shot him six times in the chest. Michael Myers continues killing the youth of Haddonfield in a deadly game of peek a boo with the audience. Now you see him now you, don’t. We? This film tries to recapture the moody and dread filled a Lear of the first Halloween, but doesn’t really deliver Doesn’t ever really deliver. I don’t think All right. So gassy. Jesus. Get me a real rough. Don’t wave it toward. You’re gonna don’t wait. If you’re me like loud descriptions of your butt, I’m gonna wave Wow! God! Oh, bad Describe it, isn’t it? Isn’t it unique? I’m stopping breathing, man immediately. Isn’t it unique? It’s gonna sweet describe it for the pod and taste it for the pod. Do it. Well, it smells like shit. So there’s that. Okay, um, but most of the interesting parts of the original were leading up to the killing spree at night when the shape is stalking Lori and her friends in this movie, it’s just the third act of the first film. The whole time efforts were made to tack on a story and motivation to fill out the slasher. Dr. Loomis babbles about philosophical and has about the philosophical and historical nature of Michael’s evil. And there’s also a shocking revelation akin to Empire Strikes Back that will get into in the spoilers. I’m sure other than that character development and plot is pretty thin in this movie. The only character we really care about is Laurie, and she does nothing for most of it. She’s only in, like, 25 minutes of it. Really? Yeah, yeah, I guess. I guess that seems about right. We could do get a lot of those ah e m t guys and their girlfriends, their nurses, a nurse, lots of disposable hospital staff, and, uh, Anyways, however, if you enjoy kills, this film delivers them at the slow and steady pace of Michael Myers. Yeah, this movie, man, Um, really know what to think about it? I I have remarked several times at this point. Now, just just remember, everybody’s different. Everybody likes different things, So just hold on to your butts. I just don’t I just don’t get Halloween. I just don’t get it. Like I get Friday the 13th. I get a nightmare on Elm Street. I really get child’s play, but I just I just don’t get Halloween. I don’t get what the allure of Michael Myers is. I get. I get Halloween one. I don’t get the rest of Yeah, sure, right? Yeah, that’s yes. Michael Myers is like a blank slate of Ah, villain. I mean, I guess so is Jason. I mean, I don’t even get Friday the 13th that much So So with So with Jason, he was made fun of, and then he was killed at camp, you know, and so he’s got a revenge thing going, So he’s dead. He’s huge. He’s got OK. He’s got the awesome looking hockey mess, which is kind of just bad at you know, it reaches for the bad ass. Sorry. You know, I got a big machete. You got a hockey mask. There’s just a bad ass component to that Mike Myers. He got a little steak knife and he’s got, ah, Captain Kirk mask on. And yeah, he’s very stoic, but he has. No, he has, as far as I can tell, his only motivation. And this is what a lot of people love about him is that he’s just a murderous psychopath like That’s it. There’s nothing more. But that’s so boring to me. And Freddy is so cool. I mean, you just can’t be Freddie for cool, you know, in terms of in terms of shit that happens in in the movie, like so many things are possible when when your medium is dreams. Yeah, I mean, Michael Myers is It’s a different thing. It’s more of like a concept. It’s kind of like it where it’s Penny wise is the the personification of beer. Yeah, Michael Myers is kind of the personification of just pure evil and red. Yeah, just inevitable death. But by simplifying it to that extent, it loses it for me. But so that’s just my opinion. I mean, that’s like, I think that’s the allure of Mike Michael Myers is that and it does it better in the first film of showing that it’s like this faceless being in. Yeah, it does not betray any motivation at all. It’s just he’s there, you know he’s gonna do something. What’s doing there? What was he doing there? What’s he doing behind those sheets is standing. My, he’s There was a lot of shrubbery play in the 1st 1 is a lot of him standing behind next to behind around trouble. Yeah, Like I said, it’s It’s a deadly game of peekaboo, deadly deadly game anyways. Ah, my score for this film. I thought it was perfectly average. I did not particularly like it. I didn’t particularly hate it. I watched it. I get it. It’s Ah, five out of 55 out of 10 for me. Sorry. Yeah. Um, yeah, I’m gonna I Yeah, I mean, I think I give it maybe a six because it was somewhat more entertaining than ah, lot of the films I’ve raided a five. Um, there was some nice boob ege. Very nice, and not that that puts it over one whole point. I’m just saying I’m just saying it does kind. I’m just going down the list here. But I mean it in that it was literally the third act of the first movie the whole way through. It did a admirable job of doing exactly that, right? It was the third act for an hour and 1\/2 right? It’s interesting. What? How? They tried. Thio tried to expand it. Yeah, Yeah, it it felt a little stretched, but yeah, but so, yeah, if I have finally attend for me, uh, if you could just bring your energy down. Looks like one Scotia way. We’re talking about a nightmare on film Street and and how successful they are, which is another podcast. Let me Don’t listen to them. No, don’t. I know you can listen to both. There’s room enough for us in them. Yeah, I think I think anyone listen to this has probably come across Nightmare on Film Street. But again, as I’ve talked about before, the one thing that we don’t have that other really successful horror movie review podcasts have is that while number one they have a woman, they have the female perspective. But, um, the two most successful ones to me are dead meat and nightmare on Film Street, which both feature very young, very, very good looking like core scene looking couples that are very high energy and and work well on YouTube. And ah, we’re not that. And I’m not I wouldn’t describe Mia’s high energy. Well, I mean, but here’s the thing, though, is, um I mean, you’re right, especially especially when it’s something like this, where I just like, yeah, I don’t care that much. Like I think other you know, entertainers, people trying to entertain people with the podcast or probably injecting a lot of energy and excitement about the film throughout. Yeah, just finding the sunny side of watching this film. Yeah, but I feel like I don’t know. Ah, a lot of my energy. And this is why I had to start the positive. A cask Segway. Ah, lot of my energy I get from being angry, you know, right and and I’m good at it. I’m like there’s no one better at being angry or spiteful than May. And so when a movie wastes my time, I feel like you do make up that energy. The worst thing that you can be if you’re looking for a lot of energy out of me is average right, Which this film is. It’s just super average. And you’re not gonna get much. They’re just not fucking anything. Really? Okay, Cool. Yeah, like whatever. I mean, you if you just say it’s a slasher, like you understand the whole the entirety of this movie. Yeah, This movie is ah, high quality, early version of the very trimmed up, well put together slasher. This is you know, this is this is a blockbuster slasher movie, and it’s one of very first ones. Yeah. Um okay, well, let’s Ah, talk briefly about how you guys can help out horror movie talk and probably help out yourself. First of all, let’s talk about her. Patri on. I’m just going to say that we have new tears coming soon because I think that it might be changed by this episode. Release problem like on the cusp of releasing some new tears. So we might be talking about that next episode, but check it out on patri on, you’ll get access to exclusive content and ah, little perks for our patrons and we love you. And thank you for becoming a patron to those that are are a horror movie top founding members, members member, all nine of them. Plus 1 10 Yeah, uh, one of them’s not. Yeah, now founding member. He’s just being generous and dropping. Dropping a little. What was that? That at your phone was that unfriended Dark Web? All right, this is going to want also. If you want to support the podcast, go to our website horror movie talk dot com. There’s a button in the banner for Amazon. If you’re gonna buy anything an Amazon, click through on that button and then we’ll get a little slice of whatever you pay for on Amazon. Talking about horror movie talk dot com We have some recent blobs that you can check out. We’ve got a new writer that’s churning out Cem Cem good content. We gotta block on Scary Doll and Puppet Horror movies and also a blogger on funny horror movies. So check that out and share that on your social media. So you get the word out of that horror movie talk. Yeah, thank you to Kimmy, who wrote those and check her out at at the Horror Lounge. Also, if you’d like to support the show. We got shudder you had. So it is the Halloween season. I don’t know if you’ve heard, but October’s Halloween month it’s not just the last day. Oh, yeah, that’s right. It’s Halloween month. And so what we do on Halloween month, we just stream horror movies. And what’s the best way to do that? Head on over to shutter, that’s S H U D g e r dot com And check out all of the amazing streaming, the huge list of streaming shit that they have all about surrounding horror. And, ah, and to give you some of that list. Here we go. Bryce is holding his nose because he doesn’t like the smell of my farts. So we got creep Show, which is a show, a new original show based on the George Romero movie creep show. It’s a shutter original Siri’s. We also have Korean horror movie The Wailing We Got VHS to the Changeling, which I believe you viewed and said it was me. We got terrified, which is one of my very favorite recent terror fists, and we have an episode on that. If you check out our past episodes, yes, we? D’oh! Also, we got the original Halloween is available on Shuter Hollowing for the return of Mike Myers have going five The Revenge of Mike Myers Re animator Hell Raiser We got a ton of queer horror titles If that’s your jam we got Texas Chainsaw Massacre Demons by our addario are Gento demons to black Christmas Shutter Exclusive Phantasm remastered That’s the original Phantasm remastered. And then we got Henry Portrait of a Serial killer which we didn’t episode on and have not released yet Knighted Living dead Couso which is amazing fart movie traders The new binge puppetmaster little list, right, Mandy Summer of 84 It’s all on shutter, so enter HMT it check out and you can get the whole month free. Do it. Um, who was the other thing? Also, they’ve got, like, a really cool original content. I mean, creep shows original, but also, I’ve watched several things that they’ve put out. They’ve got, like, the Joe Bob Briggs. So yeah, the drive in Joe Bob Briggs at the drive in. And they also have a really cool doc on Ah, black horror movies. Yeah, you are. Orin. Worry should check that out he was. Yeah. Shudder. So patri on Amazon and shudder. If you wantto support the show or if you just wanna mail me a check, I’ll receive that. Yeah, well, that would do. We do cash checks, money orders. All right, let’s get into spoilers. Spoiler section. All right, you That was David, but it was not. That is a lie. All right, so, um, Halloween, too. He just He just looks at me, blinks once and then says Halloween too. And then, like, he kind of goes off into another place where he doesn’t have to think about how Going to too much So, yeah, Halloween too. Likely said, it’s It’s just an extension of the first movie. Um, but the hospital. Bryce. How could it be an extension in the first movie if it’s in the hospital lately? Different. Um, what this movie features is lots of Michael Myers slow walking towards people and people not figuring out how to get away from him and also him surprising people by stabbing number, you know, murdering them. The There was a few moments in this movie where I where I was frustrated with Michael. Well, there’s sped up a little bit you could have. You could have had her. Anjali, you’re capable of moving a little faster. Well, now that he was shot six times the least in the heart, so s so it’s got that happening. And then the rest of the movie is Shoot is a showing, Dr Loomis, just spitting knowledge. And, like, philosophical on esoteric stuff about the nature of evil on Michael Myers in its It feels so tacked on. But that that was true in the first movie as well. Yeah. So if you like that in the first movie that he’s got plenty of it here. So it’s It’s funny. See them like Jax Jax Epazote juxtaposed. Jessica disposed until, like, just normal people so relevant. The first element prevail in the first guy that comes out toxins like What’s going on? Uh, trick or treated to death tonight? You know what death is? I’ve been trick or treated to death tonight. You don’t know what death is. All right, guys like load. And if you were that neighbor who’s like Are you serious? I’ve been trick or treated to death tonight. And then the guy responded. You don’t know what death is be like, Okay. Thank fuck you, buddy. Get off my lawn. All right, asshole. Get out of here. I’ll go find someone else to talk to is obviously a trick or treat. This is obviously a treat. This is This is like the version of Lake, um C s I Miami. Uh, David Carradine. When he’s like, I guess he was trick or treated to death. Except now and then I guess he was trick or treated to death. Yeah, he made the motion to put his glasses down. So instead of the who going Oh, you got you got a good old John Carpenter. Been trick or treated to death tonight. You don’t know what death is. Just picture Dr Loomis putting down some shades after he says that. Um, probably the coolest part of this movie is the intro. Yeah, the credits. The jack o lantern with the skull inside is really cool looking. Um, yeah. I’ll tell you what the Halloween movies air really good for is inspiring other better. Uh uh, No, but yes. Also know is inspiring Cool, vintage jackal and turn carvings. Because I last Halloween, I had a blast mimicking the the Halloween from the movie poster Jack o lantern. That’s on the movie poster. You know what? The big sharp knives for teeth? That was a fun want to do, and this one has. And then they have, like, one in the credits. They have, like jack lanterns, that air just kind of there. There’s something like very child like a child. Cut this, but also like a little off and sinister, which is great for Pump it. Um, there’s a couple of times in this film that it subverts your expectations. I mean, that’s just part of the slasher genre. The 1st 1 comes when Michael Myers goes into these old people’s house and you’re thinking, Oh, there’s gonna be the first kill old people, old people gonna die. Nope, he just takes This is what his notes say. They say there’s a way I read. Um uh oh. Old people gonne die. Nope. Eyes literally. What? I have written down People gonne die. Nope. So he doesn’t kill the old people. But then he finds another house with a young team. This is gonna be the goofiest episode ever. Uh, yeah, I’m a little punch drunk. Maybe. How late did you stay up? Was upto like 1 20 What’s the matter with you? What do you do? These things was you know, I gotta do it for the pod, man. You can you get all week I’ve got of things. E have lots of things at night. Um, Okay, so, yeah, there’s there’s some killings and then the bulk of this movie takes place in the hospital and Laurie strode. Jamie Lee Curtis’s character has taken to the hospital or were introduced to the handful of staff in this giant hospital. Like seven people work at this hospital tonight, and I don’t know. It’s like a 200 room hospital. It feels like it feels huge. I can’t imagine how big a hospital in rural in Illinois in the seventies or eighties Waas. You know, Illinois. I thought it was New Jersey. Haddonfield, Illinois field. I know you’re thinking a camp Crystal Lake is in New Jersey. All right. Um, so, yeah, it takes place in this hospital and, like, there’s a lot of just observations you can make about this hospital. Maybe I’ll save some of it for later. But, um, one of the important things is that There’s only one doctor. Yeah, and he’s a drunk, apparently. Well, just came from a party and his like Mm hm. Let me, um, give you a shot. He’s got a steady hand. I mean, right for a drunk doctor is a pretty steady hand, but Laurie is begging them not to put her to sleep. And of course they dio. But it doesn’t amount to anything. Yeah, I don’t know why they would need to put her to sleep. She doesn’t go into surgery or anything. Just has, like, establish. Yeah, they knock her out with, like, general anesthesia. And then what? Like they give her some stitches? It’s like, Wow, that’s a little a little intense. So lots of lots of stuff happens in this movie that happens in slasher genre movies, which is just nonsensical plot points, just like now she’s asleep. Oh, but now she’s running away because the killer’s after an it makes it adds tension or something like that I’m stuck in, is stuck in this door that’s closing and better take off my shirt. Bring out the sweater puppies. Um, so they’re the first part of the movie. They’re kind of hunting down Michael Myers. And there is a fake out, which is one of the most obvious fake outs because it’s within the 1st 10 minutes of the film. Those cop cars is great, like pins. Some soap in it. Well, it pins Michael Myers between her house car in the van and explodes into a ball of fire. And you’re like, Well, there we go, We got him. We have a first, uh, Loomis’s like he’s he’s getting ready to shoot this kid that he sees wearing a wearing the same mask Michael has. And there’s a big struggle over over trying him trying to shoot this kid. And I thought that was pretty funny. And then, yeah, And then instead, he’s saved from having to shoot the kid by a police officer who turns this child into a fireball. It’s great, basically probably chopped the kid in half between the cop car and Savannah that he hit. Yeah, like going like 40 miles per hour down like a residential street. It was an insane explosion that would not have happened, and then just immediately the bodies like burning up to a crisp. And so it’s like, I mean, is there anyone that’s going to think that that’s actually Michael Myers. They all did, because movie, who would end up being just some teenager with the same mask? Also featured in this movie is lots of first person camera work showing Michael creeping about mostly in the first part of the movie. They don’t do it as much later on, but they try toe to bring in the elements that worked in the first movie. Most of the first act of this film fills in the audience with the main plot points of the first film. Mainly that Michael Myers killed his sister when he was a young child and has been in a mental institution for his whole life. And then yeah, like, 10 or 12 years, something like that. Yeah. And ah, he recently escaped and had a murder spree, and Laurie Strode was at the center of it at the center of it. But why do we know why my he’s so fix it in on Laurie? Well, I’ll tell you, this is the spoiler section, right? Well, get ready for the biggest spoiler of Halloween too. Glory strewn his Michael Myers sister. Wait. Is she Are you seriously didn’t catch that. No. Oh, my God. Are you serious? Yeah, I remember them at toward the end. Being like sister, sister, sister. It’s to a twister, but I don’t. Ah. I don’t remember exactly how this it was really quick. Well, there, first of all, that wasn’t actually quick, because are you just trying to make me feel better or is this theirs too quick parts? And there is one where, um, it shows Laurie. And she’s remembering a moment from the past where she’s visiting some kid in the hospital. Yeah, and I mean, it’s pretty obvious at that point that, like, she at least have some sort of relationship with Michael Myers when she was younger. Okay, whatever. The kid isn’t a you know? Yeah. Hospitalized, Sure. And then later, briefly in the car when the doctor or nurse came back to get Dr Loomis toe because the governor apparently told him that he needs to go back to the mental institution for for I don’t know why I like we don’t want anyone from the hospital there in Haddonfield, because reasons so they come and come and get him. And in the car, she’s like there’s there’s something that you need to know. There’s a file that was hidden away because his parents didn’t want. I want people to know we should have told you. You know, this this doctor that’s been on Michael Myers this case for 15 years or whatever and ah, then she said, Laurie Strode is Michael Myers is sister okay? And then he’s like, Well, that’s why he’s here. He wants to finish her off because he killed his other sister and now he needs to kill. This is so in a way, it actually makes sense. Like I get it. I like it. It works, but also in the interest in the barest possible sense. It gives Michael Myers at least a reason to be going after this particular girl so hard. Um, but also it feels super tacked on. And this is a year after Empire strikes back. So it’s not too subtle of a rip off of, like, shocking reveal his family, a member of family relationship. Okay between the villain and the protagonist, I get where, where that that connection is now. Yeah, I didn’t even fucking catch that. You didn’t. That’s like the whole I didn’t even catching about this movie. I mean, it’s it’s weird what we latch on to write, because I could get so much meaning out of movies where there is apparently no meaning it off. This is true, and, ah, and yet there’s very important. It really speaks to the fact that is not an interesting movie. Like, I felt like I could go on autopilot for most of it, and I did so Basically, this movie was supposed to be the end of the story, so it was supposed to be like a self contained, too movie set to and done, and they’re going to do more Halloween movies. That was different topics so harrowing. Three was actually you know, Season of the Witch had nothing to do with Michael Myers. Michael Myers was dead, right? Right. And that’s kind of a trope In the spring, we said, no matter how much you kill Michael Myers at the end of these movies like, yeah, he’s still gonna come back. And that’s common among slashers. Yeah, but so John Carpenter was going to do like a which based one, and then after that one, he was gonna do a ghost based one. And there’s all gonna happen on the day of Halloween, Right? That was gonna be the through line. It was gonna be more of an anthology kind of thing, right? Right, Right. Halloween three did not work out, even though apparently is a better movie from this one? Yes. So I’ve heard we have a blogged. Keith wrote a blogged about it about how season of the witch was basically not given its due. Yeah, and just Ah, financially, it was a failure. And so they decided, make the Supreme Creator decision to be like, Well, let’s just bring back Michael Myers because that’s what people actually and they have ever since. I mean, it’s they should have done whatever, but But this was supposed to be like the last film. And then they have you know, nine other films just enter this. No, I guess there’s eight other films after this, But even in this Siri’s in this timeline before to rebooted, I think there’s feel more so Wow, this idea that Laurie is his sister, I think, is common among most of them. They play really loose with, like Theo timeline for Halloween because the the reboot. All the soft reboot in 2018 completely disregards this film, right? Like because it’s very problematic toe. Have Lori be his sister. They just have to read con that out or just ignore it and just say, Never mind. None of those movies happen, right? Let’s start again. So anyways, but that’s that’s an important point in this movie. Glad you’re paying attention, David. Like you don’t miss that. Yeah, I missed nothing. Um, okay. So lots of horror movie tropes in this movie, first of which, I mean, other than just Carol killer, Um, that unstoppable. What? What are some of the troops you see in this movie? So there’s the phone lines that get cut immediately. So, uh, the killer knows this place like the back of his hand. Uh, he’s he’s ah, he’s so familiar with the hospital that he’s able to find and disconnect the phone line, Uh, before anything else happens in this room. And then, um, the incompetent security guard. That’s got to be a trope, right? The, um yeah, I was gonna say the in terms of horror movies, sex at work. Slashers would be a lot less scary if people were actually competent at their jobs. Yeah, yeah. If this guy wasn’t a gigantic bumbling, you know, 50 year old, because the security guards like here, take this. I’m gonna talking on the radio on the girl that he hands it to, like, you know, some 18 year old several. She’s like, I don’t know how to use. And then he’s gone. It’s like I got to check this thing out. You got my back with this radio. She’s like, how does it just leaves walks out? Um, this is like that. That cop and, uh, in health test or he’s like, Yeah, you’re the guy attacked you. But But what am I supposed to do about it? What am I supposed to do that? Yeah. There’s lots of people in masks here. Check out our view of health test about this time last year. Fabulous slasher. Um, so the the one notable thing is that the pacing is ah lot slower in this film. So seventies early eighties slashers are noticeably slower with even even Michael Myers just walking like we’ve already said, Who’s he’s the slowest villain. He’s by far the slowest, and, ah, and you know eyes. But interestingly, you know, like Texas Chainsaw Massacre before I believe the original Halloween. Uh, yeah, for sure. And faster paced. A CZ far is, Ah, lot of different things. It’s a It’s just a much more disturbing overall premise to May. Yeah, there’s like a combination of liking the ah cinema verite, a kind of stuff from the seventies where it’s trying to be a little more realistic, a little more normal paste. And so it’s. It’s noticeable in this movie that a lot of time, it’s just really quiet. There’s literally just nothing going on. It’s a person standing there for a couple seconds before making a motion or doing something and yeah, its silence. And then, like a little alarm bell goes off or something. What did you call it? Cinema verite? A. What’s that? It’s like very today is like truth or something. So it’s like truth on film. It’s like a way to it. It is a style I a style. It’s just, like, kind of a feel, like a lot of movies in the seventies, like it got, uh, very just it got out of the way in terms of like, lots of cuts. There were longer takes more silence in the dialogue, just more time to let everything breathe. And so that’s definitely something that’s very obvious in at, particularly in the first Halloween. Yeah, so that’s that’s kind of noticeable. If you’re a fan of recent horror movies like you’re gonna be like, yeah, even even the sound is a lot more subtle, like the jump scares. Like it’s not like, really, really loud. So I just kind of like, Well, yeah, the cat one cat one The cat jumps scaring this worked on me by the really Oh, my God. Oh my gosh, I was like Because Because normally, like, ah, Halloween movie is not going to throw a big jump scare at you like, especially in early one. Yeah, I see. I wrote down slow us jump scare ever because it just felt so I’m used to be. I’m used to being hit over the head with it now, especially with, like the conjuring movies and modern jump scare like factories of movies like they have a formula where it’s, you know, quiet, precise and effective, like dread filled music. And then, yeah, yeah, a big, loud sound So you is that this was literally just a guy looking in the dumpster and then account going. I was like, No kitty, Bad kitty. Oh, Speaking of which, bad kitty, my cat brought a live mouse into our house and dropped it on the floor and watched it run away like you fucking bitch. Like I tried to smash it. But it it Ah, it escaped my smash. And, uh, and then I like I It’s just a baby mouse. And look, I know how you’re feeling, Pita. I know you’re out there. I know you’re coming for me, but there’s a mouse in my house and this mouse is turning my house upside down. I see it under the couch like I get up in the morning. It doesn’t know where it is. It’s an outside mouse. It’s like, What the fuck is going on? It’s a baby kind of. And it’s s o. I chasing around and open the door and try to shoot it out. If I can, I’ll smash it. But really, I just hope it runs away so I don’t have to take its life. Did I ever tell you my great white hunter story? know what? Thistles. What? I turned my great white hunters story. Okay, like your Moby Dick move. I’ve gotta I’ve gotta paint a picture here. Um, so, yeah, we had a mouse in the house every once a while, our house would get a mouse that would come in through kind of either. Like, there’s this of this event or something, but it would get through close to where my parents, garbage disposal or the trash compactor was and get into the trash compactor and scurry around in there, and we’d always have cats, and so they usually take care of him. But this one mouse was in our living room, and I noticed it, and I could see it was kind of trapped. It couldn’t, Uh, all I could do is, like, go behind the couch is like it was a sunk down like a step down. Yeah, it was like a tiny, tiny mouse like you’re talking about. So it probably could have jumped out, but it was It was kind of going around the same path. And then I realized that recently I had purchased something. A blowgun up. Logan. Oh, yeah. I never told you this story. I think I think this is starting to become more familiar. So it’s like Bruce Willis and Pulp Fiction when he spots The samurai sword was like the blowgun and, like, blow guns air. Not very useful. It’s kind of fun for like, 10 minutes. You’ve got, like, you put a needle into a tree. Yeah, and you got, like, a little target or whatever, but then it’s got all these acute trauma where you can you can buy the needles that’ll take down like a squirrel. You by a needle that could take down, like something a little bigger, maybe like a bunny or something, the different tips and stuff. So I had, you know, just the normal Neil tips. And then there was one that was, like, just kind of had a flare on it at the tip, like like a like a metal flare. It was like someone hammered it. Okay, Yeah. Yeah. And so it does a little more damage if it goes in. And then the ones that actually use most were like the little yellow pucks that you just shoot it. So wait. It’s a needle with a flare in the needle tip. Uh oh. Okay, so it’s yet just does a little more damage, like not gonna not gonna come out. It’s not just gonna go straight through. It’s like a barbed hook. Yeah, um, but I liked when they sold sold it to me the little yellow pucks that it shoots out. They sold it as like, Well, this is you can just stun him. Like if you find a squirrel that you don’t want your bird feeder, you just shoot it with one of these. It’s not gonna kill him just on him, and it’s gonna go off. I called those. I called those garrett fodder. Yeah, this’d what I used to shoot my brother with. And then you just say, And then I remember he made a note to not let the squirrel see you, cause you want it to not associate your presence with it. Just wanted to associate their commercial that you’re talking about know about it affair or something like that. Oh, so this is a guy pitching this thio Sam ways I had this blow again. So I went and unwrapped the blowgun which was on my sword racked by the by the way, Bryce’s secret. Shame is he used to collect mall ninja swords like a fucking geek. There’s no shame. So they weren’t from the mall. They’re from various country locations around the world locations. Anyways, it took out the blowgun and I went down. And the paint the picture. This is like 14 year old me So still like riel Real chubby fat will just a fence. And I’m in, like, just my tighty whiteys. Yeah, No shirt. Now we’re talking, so I’m like, full Rambo, like, made of native native mode. And I take out my blowgun and I look back the back crack of the couch between the couch and the wall. Nash’s see my foe, huh? And then he spots may start for running away, and I blow and he jumps into the darkness. Just is the needle goes out. I did. Did you get him? You got him? Yeah. Who needle went right through him and pinned him to the ground. Holy shit. That’s the coolest thing I’ve ever heard. I don’t like killing stuff, but I will. And I appreciate the ah, the tam. The marksmanship. Yeah, that’s incredible. So get yourself a blowgun. Did Ah. Did you feel like? Did you feel like a lot of guilt, or were you just like fucking badass right now? Were you like that, Chubby? A 14 year old in his tighty whitey? She’s, like, on top of the world. I was so amazed that I hit him like the chances that I Yeah, I hit him were so astounding. I don’t practice this. It’s not like this is my Yeah, Yeah, And blow guns air. So surprisingly like intuitive. Like it’s pretty easy to Yes, it market takes the concept of Look where you want to throw, right when and it and it makes it even easier because it attach. Is it basically to your nose, right underneath your nose. Where is your sights? But yeah. Yeah, so, um okay, I have probably felt a little bit of guilt, but I was so elated that I that I got him and I showed everyone like, Can you believe that I got this fucking mouse with his blowgun? I’m not gonna lie. I’m proud of you right now. Like is probably It’s probably the best moment in my life. Did he die? And I have three children. Did he die right away was he was dead. Okay. Wow. Yeah, That’s a That’s a clean shot. It was a humane death. I mean, it went right through. Face the chest, chest. All area. Chester area. Yeah, that’s Ah, that’s a common Adam and Emma Tom Mickle term. Anyway, let’s get back to this boring movie. Um, so lots of deaths. So, I mean, that’s what people come to these movies for is like the interesting death. So there’s a claw hammer death. Yeah, which is cool. That’s the security guard that gets killed. There’s some needle in the eye deaths. Yeah, I don’t like those specifically don’t like the needle in the eye deaths. There’s lots of ah, scalpel deaths. So most of this film is Michael Myers with a little tiny scalpel, which is a little less intimidating than a giant butcher knife. Yeah, he Although he does perform some of his most common party tricks like, you know, stabbing you in the back with a scalpel instead of a big, gigantic buoy number and then lifting you off the ground with that scalpel. Yeah, I don’t think it’s Koppel would do that. Wouldn’t you Shut up? Um, also a scalding death. Yeah, So this one is Ah, this is this Death was meant for boob jiggles. Uh, that’s Ah, that’s what it was meant for. A girl is telling herself off and ah, her Michael Myers. It’s like in a therapeutic tub, and Michael Myers turns up the heat to 11. And so it’s like it even has, like, a dial that says scalding as it’s going past it. And somehow just it’s so hot that it just burns off, hurt the first layer of skin, and it’s like sloughing off. Well, hang on, Uncle Myers. His hand is honest. I want to set this up a little bit here. So So she’s telling off. She’s, like, just gotten done fooling around with her boyfriend in the tub. She’s like she caught, puts an end to it. She puts the kibosh on that. She’s like, You’re not getting this tonight. I got to goto work, and so he goes to towel off in the other room. And where my ah, Michael Myers kills him and then, ah, And then, as she’s telling off next to the tub, Michael Myers enters the room, approaches her from behind, lovingly caresses her shoulder, and she’s like, Oh, you know, Sorry. Sorry, boy. And she’s like sucking on his hand. Yeah. You know what we’re like, like, just kind of on. Let me just touch you. Wouldn’t you, like, taste the blood? Or like, I just I don’t know, grossness like Michael Myers his hand. I don’t Guy that was with her just came out of the tub like, yeah, his hand would have been my at least clammy. I feel like if I was gonna suck on someone’s hand, I would be able to tell whether it was my boyfriends or not. Yeah, maybe just saying. Yeah, well, I mean, you know, she she Maybe she’s just maybe she just, you know, like, um so used to sucking on so many different hands that it’s just one of those things where it’s, like the back of her mind. But yeah, she really gave this hand a weird suck. And and then, you know, she turns around and it’s Mike Michael Myers, and she’s like, Oh, God! And then he takes and dunk, sir. Ah, bunch. You know, and, uh, and then get in Slough off her face and that. But Mike’s hand is strangely unscathed. But, you know, maybe, I mean, we don’t get a close up of the hand afterward, and and maybe it was maybe maybe, like the pre dunk suck wet his hand, put a protective layer of Survivor that would protect the fact that he’s holding company having her hair. Maybe it’s like like a glove, right? Like a hair glove hairs or what’s not overthinking other deaths of strangling death, just lots of lots of different. The way is toe kill people that Michael Myers coaster. Except, you know, the one defence is walking a little quicker than normal. Just just okay, just a little faster. So throughout the movie, they tryto had kind of like supernatural elements of they try and tack on a bunch of weird shit. Yeah, 11 of the elements, you know that they try to expand it is Laurie and Michael’s relationship. But then, also, Loomis’s here throughout just trying to kind of expand it into like a supernatural realm that he’s, you know, questionably undead kind of thing. It and then he sees the Michael Myers left like this, writing on a chalkboard and blood that said, Samhain and Loomis had this to say about that. What says it’s gibberish? No, that’s a Celtic word. Samhain. That means the Lord of the Dead. The end of summer. The festival off some aid. That’s Halloween, isn’t it? Oh, play that clip. Had a lot of background sound going on. Yeah, And then there’s this is him actually kind of explaining, Maura, about what? That festival is about to say. The black bag in the elementary school. In order to appease the gods, the Druid priests held fire rituals. Prisoners of war criminals, insane animals, learned alive in basket. By observing the way they died, the Druids believed they could see omens of the future. 2000 years later, we’ve come no further. Sam Main isn’t evil spirits. Goblins goes the witches, the unconscious mind. We’re all afraid of the dog inside ourselves. Please. Yeah, so I mean, it’s trying to expand it into into this trilogy into them. The next generations of this That won’t feature Michael Myers. Yeah. I mean, it’s very obviously like the hypothesis of this movie is like, this is Dr. Loomis is here to say this is kind of what we’re going for. Yeah, and to me. It’s kind of disappointing because if you can’t show that with the rest of the film, if you need someone to spell out, this is what we’re going for. This is like the Lord of the Death, and this is it’s the in country, unconscious mind and it’s blah, blah, blah. All right, I get what you’re I get what you’re trying to do. But it just leaves me saying to myself, Actually, Miss, please, you know when when you were playing, I got two things when you’re playing that clip and the high pitched squealing came in over my head phones. I thought I was hearing something from out outside and I had a panic moment. So that was that was fairly effective. If you watch this movie, listen to it on headphones and get a different experience. But then also Price, I have a question that I think you might be able to help me with, which is a lot of times. So you know, these big these big slashers get, um, you know, get big on the merit of the Creator. Right? John Carpenter, First Halloween. John Carpenter dirt, but writes and directs. Why? But West West Craven nightmare on Elm Street. Same thing. Why is it that they take it out of that person’s hands for the second movie all the time? The second, the third? They’re like, Yeah, John Carpenter can write it, but he was not going to direct. And what is that? John Carpenter didn’t want to direct it like I don’t know. I don’t think him and the other writer actually wanted to do Halloween, too. They were. They said no. Initially, I just read this on imdb. They’re like, No, the first film stands alone on its own. It’s a great movie. We don’t want to extend it because that would. And then you’re like, How about we give you more money? And John Carpenter goes okay, all right. And so they offered him more money and, ah, supposedly this was in the trivia. I don’t know if they actually saw into John Carpenter’s mind, but basically said that he made no money off of the first film. And so the second paycheck. And I think this is true of a lot of creators that have a really, really successful first film, that they don’t have a great deal because they’re unknown or unproven s o. They don’t make a lot of money off of the one thing that I just made a shit ton of money and they do the following ones to make that up. So John Carpenter was like, Well, I didn’t make any money off the 1st 1 and it made a ton of money. So I can kind of get my due by writing the script of this one. And, um and I don’t have to have my name attached to a terrible movie as a director. Yeah, just the writer. Just the one with all the concepts, right? So And it’s it’s kind of interesting when you say you’re not terrible. I don’t mean to say that this is movie. This movie is terrible, but like, if you were look at Nightmare on Elm Street to Yeah, it’s terrible. So So it’s Ah, he wrote it and tried to incorporate elements of some of the more successful, um, horror movies around that time. So apparently the director wanted to make it very much like the 1st 1 and John Carper to win in after that director’s final cut and added some scenes that were more gory because that’s what the kids wanted right in the early eighties. And so it’s kind of like a muddled kind of a muddled movie. I’m really glad I asked that question because this answers a lot. You know, I really isn’t always been confusing to me that why don’t you bring back the guy who did the work like, Yeah, this is the reason It’s good. Yeah, my, um, eso lots of things in this movie here and this is more, more horror trips, a lot of convenient just stuff that doesn’t make sense. And to a certain extent, it’s trying to be dreamlike, like there’s a lot of dream logic in this, where one minute Lori is catatonic. She’s like, See, she’s literally like, not breathing because she’s having a reaction medication and Michael Myers is coming for and you’re like, Oh, no, oh, no, She’s catatonic. He’s gonna get her. And then once Michael Myers opens the door and stabs, it’s just pillows. And then Laurie is now running away because because she woke up and you look just run away. Yeah, just in time, Yeah, Then the other one is like, glorious running away. This is the one. This is the one, like chasing that was the most ridiculous because it’s literally like he’s as far away from her as you are from me right now, which is like five feet. And she decides then to climb up some boxes and open a window and climb out the window after after watching him approach for a good 14 feet. Yeah, for very clumsily and slowly and Michael Myers, like, slowly walks up. And then he kind of waves at her in a way that Ricky Bobby does in Talladega Nights was just like, Don’t know what to do. A hand. I don’t know what to do with my hands, just like Michael might just close your hand. You’ll have her. I mean, I get what they were going for right? Which is which is all the girls in the theatre immediately go. Oh, he’s grabbing at her legs. Is she got but really What? It Yeah, What it really achieves is it makes Michael looks stupid, and and then my this is my favorite part of the whole movie. Once she gets out of that window, then she she’s in another part of like a storage room or something like that in the basement. And she runs around a chain link fence like an L pattern around a chain link fence toe where she sees an elevator and Mike Myers is hot on her tail, moving at the speed of smell. And he he is walking so slowly that she is able to get get in the elevator, goes down three Flory floors. She gets in, it opens the door, you know, agonizingly slowly, like an elevator does. And then it closes. You know, she’s like, Oh, God, impressing the door closed, his hand goes in the elevator issued, or she’s watching him approach over 10 feet while she’s in the elevator going, Please, please close, Please. Please. Clothes. And he can’t speed up one little iota. And then he puts his hand in the door. So you’re thinking it’s gonna open the elevator, but then he just pulls it out on the door. Close the only elevator in the world that does that just like out my hand. Yeah, so there’s lots of that kind of stuff. It’s strangely endearing, though. Yeah, again. In this in this hospital is the most I I think They’re working in an abandoned hospital, and no one told them. Well, hey, wait a minute. This isn’t the hospital with the patients things the old abandoned hospital down on the, you know, old hospital road for 1 to 5. Hospital road? No, for 1 to 6. No, it’s that hospital right there. It’s not this one. They followed the drunk doctor over there, just trusting you. News? Yeah. I mean, and it’s great. There’s actually a scene with one of the e m t s. And he’s all Listen, I can’t find anybody that’s gone. Mrs. Alice is gone. We gotta find Laurie. Listen, I can’t find anyone. Can you imagine being in the hospital that was literally just empty? See? And this is a question that I have to maybe some viewers who are listeners who are older than me. So I’m an eighties kid nineties kid, born in the eighties and, ah, same with Bryce. So we don’t really have Ah, good. We don’t have a good idea about what? You know, maybe middle America. You know, we’re talking Illinois. We’re talking Kansas, Oklahoma. Just good old corn fed motherfuckers out there. What was it like in like the seventies and eighties. Was this an accurate portrayal of the hospital in those toe? I I’m so curious. I just didn’t have accidents back then. They didn’t. Maybe maybe it’s not that they didn’t have accidents, but there just wasn’t very many of them. Or maybe they just let people die a lot of debt. There were a lot more deaths. Yeah, you know, Yeah, I’m very leery is likely. Completely empty. I think the only other patient that we saw was there was a couple babies in the nursery. The loneliest babies with no mother. See, never like they’re just sitting there like, Yeah, so yeah, it’s It’s just it feels dream like it does. Um, but if you’re going for, like, a realistic I didn’t Whatever. So, um, and then the end Michael walks through some doors to go after them. Well said, and the and then Lori shoots him in the eyes. But before she does that, he has to walk through some doors to get yeah, walk through some doors to get torn. Laurie has a gun that Dr Loomis gave and he shoots. She shoots him in the eyes, and then the blood comes out like tears. And I said, Oh, you made him cry for the little guy or Michael Myers And and then he’s blind. And Dr Loomis and Laurie on are on separate sides of the room and they figure out turning on the air is like I wanted them to say he’s attracted to the sound of air because they kept turning on the’s like air container tanks. Yeah, these big the other room, these big tanks containing oxygen and, ah, ether. But wouldn’t Wouldn’t they just fucking pass out if there’s a either just floating around. Instead, Dr Loomis lights a match in. They get blowed up, sacrificing himself. They have blowed up real good, like literally, just a giant fireball explosion ends really? Well, that’s that for sure. And it shows Michael Myers laying on his stomach like literally just burning for probably like a good minute. Yeah, showing them like seemed like it was 30 seconds or so. He is dead. Legally dead D E. D. Dead no more Michael Meyers movies. No, he’s gone. 100%. See is flesh burning office skull. We’ve cashed in this chip. It’s over. There’s just no more go home. There’s no way that they could make four more movies starring Michael Myers and then to re re imaginings. Yeah, yeah, you know, he was still like and also like, movies. Donald Pleasants is in the other movies, too. So apparently Dr Loomis survives as well. Well, there’s a There was a little trip to a burn ward, you know, had some second degree burns anyways, so that kind of ruins. I mean, that’s the thing with these movies, like you have to see him in the time because the fact that you know that they’re seven other sequels is like, Well, he’s still there like that means nothing. That ending means nothing. Yeah, gives it gives a little bit away trying to think. Have we seen any new movies that are going to turn into something big? I guess I guess I When I saw the conjuring, I felt, Ah, I saw that in theaters and I felt like, Wow, this there’s something here And then certainly there has been obviously, I mean, the one that I would point to that I bet would get a sequel is ready or not, but I don’t know how they would do that for how that would be a franchise. Well, I’m sure there are some mildly creative people who will make that happen. Yeah. Ready or not? Probably the best movie. Yeah, that we’ve seen recently. Yeah, for sure. I don’t think they’re going to make a franchise off of midsummer. No. Or hereditary. Now, what if they did make a franchise off of hereditary? Wouldn’t that be great? They feel they feel like I mean, you could he could do a sequel of Hereditary. Yeah, but, I mean, I would I would want it to be Ari Astor. Yeah. Um, yeah. I don’t know. Flashes. I think slashers do super well anymore right now. I mean, I guess Halloween 2018 made a ton of money. Yeah, and I thought there was gonna be I thought there was gonna be a sequel to that this year. Actually, is that next year? Okay. 2020. Yeah. Okay. Um, so, yeah, that was that was the movie lots of, Ah, stabbing. Lots of slow walking. Yeah, lots of ah, lots of scalp. ALS. I mean, it’s it’s interesting, because, like, if you were gonna watch the first movie might as well, just tack on this one, too. It just to see where that self encapsulated story where the original vision would have stopped. I don’t have a problem with this movie. To be clear, this movie does not suck. It is not a bad movie. No, In fact, I thought it was like I really do think it is interesting that it’s not like there’s no laughable parts or like, parts that I’m rolling my eyes out. It’s just very trophy. It’s like, Yep, that’s that thing. Yeah, and part of that is this is the like. This is the standard centre for tropes. Like this is where a lot of those started, right? So, yeah, we look at him. Now we go. That’s so hacky. Like a look at that hacky bullshit. But yeah, it’s hacky because it started it like that. This was this started a whole movement. And I do think it’s interesting that it that it literally picks up seconds after the 1st 1 and just carries out the rest of the night. Yeah, so yeah. So final recommendations, man. Uh, you know, if you’re doing if you’re doing a watching of of all the Halloween’s or something like that. This one is not one to skip. In my opinion, Yeah. So do that. This this Halloween click through our link on Amazon. Watch this movie on Amazon. Rent it. All right, please. Yeah. I mean, if you like slasher movies like this is I mean, obviously the Halloween franchise or something that you should definitely touch on. Yeah. One and two. Probably some of the most important ones on. So I think like out of them that people talk about theirs. Having one into There’s three. I think three is is Yeah, three. Notable in how different it is. But it’s not. I mean, it’s weird even include that in this franchise. It’s like its own thing, too. Yeah, but I think that’s why I mean, why, um h 20 this. It’s a lot of attention. Had some rapper in it in there. No, that was another one. Know it for sure. H 20 Definitely. I got it. Now. I gotta look this up. No, there’s one. Because that was 1998 99. There was Halloween. Resurrection had Busta Rhymes. Okay, Okay. I was thinking about Lep in the hood. Leper con in the Oh, yeah. Um, I think h 20 um I mean, the 2018 Halloween one got really good scores we’ll see about. Okay, so h 20 in the return of Michael Myers Got some good stuff. So I think, like, I think number three No. Yeah. So yeah, 12 and four and then skip to H 20 is probably where you should go. Well, in terms of like, the original, lots of people, lots of people. There’s a lot of controversy around the Rob Zombie remakes, Um, personally, it way too gross and, um, horrific for me. But, um, but they are notable in that some people definitely prefer the backstory of Mike Myers and why he is the way he is. And, ah, and Rob Zombie does kind of delve into it in his two movies. I’m looking at the cast for H 20 right now, Obviously, Jamie Lee Curtis. But other notables. Our Josh Barnett and Joseph Gordon Levitt. There you go, Joseph Gordon Levitt in 1998. Like coming right off 1\/3 Rock from the Sun. Joseph Gordon Levitt. So let’s play Attack of the Rotten tomatoes, Right, mate? Hey, that’s one of my favorite. That’s one of my favorites, too, because we have thio say rotten, right, because we’re too lazy to record it. Uh, okay. So, like I said, this version of Attack of the Rotten Tomatoes, we’re going to be pitting Halloween against Nightmare on Elm Street. I’m going to give you two one from each franchise. And I tried to param up a cz close to the years as I could. So you try to go like, like, one like like householders. And there’s a couple of them that are the same year, so yeah, you’ll see. Okay, So let’s let’s start with the first films, though. So Halloween 1978. Okay, the original versus the original a nightmare on Elm Street, which was in 1984. So that’s the biggest separation that we have. And we’re going off of the Taito Meter score. That’s the critics scores the critics aggregate score. Let me think here. Okay, so Halloween, which is so iconic that it’s, you know, arguably birth the slasher genre in and of itself. And then we have the original nightmare on Elm Street, which is, um, extraordinaire also extremely notable in that, you know, Freddie is probably the most iconic slasher villain ever. So, um, I gotta say, I think I think John Carpenter gets a little bit more traction with the critics than West Craven. So I’m going to say the original Halloween. You are correct. Oh, by Halloween. Got 96 down Nightmare on Elm Street at 94. So you in close? Yeah. You close? I don’t even think my logic for that stands up. I think that’s just anomalous thing. Yeah. Next we have Halloween four. The Return of Michael Myers, made in 1988 available on Shuter and a chipped A Nightmare on Elm Street. Four. Both four’s the Dream Master. Okay, so how in four? Directed by Dwight H. Little and Mark Cunningham And starring Donald Pleasants, Ellie Cornell and George P. Wilbur. You know those stars? Big names, Dream Master. It was directed by Reni Harland starring Robert Englund, of course, Lisa Wilcox and Danny Hassle. This is tough. Um, I have I’ve seen neither. I was thinking about watching Halloween four on Shuter. Um, but I haven’t yet, so I think for this one I’m going to go Halloween again because I have heard good things about that one, and I have not heard almost anything about ah, name and Elm Street for So that’s what I’m saying. You hear a lot about dream warriors Dream Warriors? Yeah, is three, but this is the next one dream Master. Um, you are wrong. Oh, wow. Nightmare on Elm Street. Four got 55. Okay, so just under fresh, I think freshest 60. Yeah, something like them. So it’s really split right down the middle for critics. Halloween four got 30% hoof. Um, yeah, which is actually more than to. I think two is, like, 30. So, um, a little, maybe a little better than the one we watched. Uh, might be interested in whatever. Okay. How in five. Revenge of Michael Myers Directed by Dominique Oh Thelen Gerard Starring Daniel Harris, Donald Pleasants and Wendy Kaplan vs A Nightmare on Elm Street five. The Dream Child in 1989 both in 1989 that when it’s directed by Stephen Hopkins Starring Robert Englund, Lisa Wilcox and Danny Hassle. The same cast His last movie, Dream Child fucked me up. It it is It is the reason I slept with the lights on from ages five or six until, like, nine. Not joking. Yeah, because I’ve mentioned this before in podcast. My family had pay per view because we had one of the gigantic satellite dishes in the eighties. And Ah, and this was on and, like, 90 or something like that. And I was just a little boy. And I caught, um, Freddie become birthing himself out of a woman’s like stomach, like with his claws on da. And that fucked me up, buddy. Like so just based on that, I’m gonna have to say, um, Dream child you are Could react. No, baby. Yeah. Helling, five. Revenge of Michael Myers got 13. Wow. And that is not, uh, nightmare on Elm Street. Five Got 32. Dang. Okay. Still not great. Not great. Not good. A 22 scarring for May, for sure. All right. Next in 1995 Halloween Curse of Michael Myers. This is Howling six Directed by Joe Chappell Starring Donald Pleasants, Paul Rudd’s and Mitchell Ryan. I’m really interested to see what a Halloween produced in the dead mid nineties looks like. Yeah, you know. And then West Craven’s new nightmare and was in 1994 so a year earlier. Directed by Wes Craven starring David Newson, Robert Englund and Heather Langenkamp. Which is the girl from the first movie. Never heard One thing Heather Langenkamp is in dream Warriors. Well, never heard one thing about Halloween six, but I’ve heard lots of good stuff about a new nightmare. So I’m gonna say, Newman, New Nightmare. You’re correct. Yeah, this is probably the biggest spread of points. Wes Craven’s new nightmare Kind of a soft reboot. Yeah. Franchise got a 78 damn 2nd 2nd highest score for that franchise. And pretty sure, um, hello in six. Got a 606% power and red Poor Paul Red, Do you think Do you think when, like the howling franchises brought up in front of Paul Red, Do you think he’s like, you know, I was in a Halloween? Or do you think it was like, What? Oh, yeah, that seems like it’s ah, interesting franchise sixths. And that’s I mean, it’s strangely fitting that Halloween six got to six. Um, okay, so you’ve already got three. So you’ve won the game, but I got two more. Okay. Ah, Halloween Resurrection 2002 Directed by. Dick Rosenthal Starring Buster Rhymes, Tyra Banks and Jamie Lee Curtis. Damn Tyra Banks in her hottest nous. Uh, and who else? And Jamie Lee Curtis? Probably in her Hodess n’est staying And that was that was right after true lies. So what is it, really? I never I never saw true lies. But what is it about? What What is it about? Never seen true life. Okay, I just never have understood people like my dad would be like watching Halloween like he doesn’t watch horror movies. And he’s like Jamie Lee Curtis is the one more Ryan. What the fuck are you talking about? Why does everybody think Jamie Lee Curtis is so hot? Well, there’s a couple movies. There’s trading spaces. She prayed, plays a hooker in that one, and she’s got a nice bod. Um, true lies definitely shows off pretty nice bod like I mean, I get it, Okay, I totally get it. And you see, I guess I need to see true lies you gotta see truly. It’s like one of the best action movies ever made. That’s that’s why I’m just not interested in it. I guess. Yeah, it’s It’s like, Well, it’s James Cameron. Okay. Oh, I did not know that. We’ll watch that. Um okay. Versus our back to the game. Freddy versus Jason, which is 2003. A year later, directed by Ronnie You, starring Robert Englund, Can cursing her and Monica Keena. I went to see that in theaters with a bunch of my friends, and it was hilarious. I’m gonna say a resurrection. Was that the other option? Uh, yeah, I’m gonna say resurrection because Freddy versus Jason was terrible. And I’m sure critics didn’t even jokingly like it. Buster Rhymes did not pull through. It was actually Ah, Freddy versus Jason. That got a higher score. So Halloween Resurrection got an 11 hoof and Freddy versus Jason Got a 41. Wow, that’s a lot more than I would have expected. I would have expected 11 vs, like 14. Still not fresh, but yeah. Dang right. Direction must be fucking awful. Can you even imagine how bad it would have to be to have like to be up against Freddy versus Jason and be like, yeah, definitely friendly first, like, not even comparable universes apart. Also, I think it’s like lower expectations. If I mean Freddy versus Jason, it’s such an exploitative concept. That’s not like anyone’s gonna expect lots of introspective dialogue there. Anything in that movie? Um, okay. Last one h two Halloween, too. The 2009 version. Not the one that we reviewed. This one’s directed by it. Robert Zombie murdering Malcolm McDowell, Brad Dourif, which I think is the voice of Chucky If I’m remembering, Right and e, I think Brad am something. Something Anyway, I’m not sure. Well, now we gotta check now. We have to You have to check because Bryce has to be right all the time. Mark Hamill is the voice of new Chuckie. Yeah, Brander. Oh, yes. Yeah, I was right. Oh, so it is. So you know so, yeah. Brad Dourif was an H 20 k and Tyler Mane versus a Nightmare. A Nightmare on Elm Street 2010. The Reboot, Directed by a Samuel Bear starring Rooney, Mara, Kyle Galle, Honor and Thomas Dekker. This is the 22,010 reboot Eso Keith wrote a blogged about this. And how the reboot not not necessary. Um, and I trust Keith’s opinion very much, eh? so I’m gonna go ahead and say, Robert zombies flick H two. You’re correct. Maybe. So. You got four out of six. Good job. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. Ellen has a much worse track record than nightmare on Elm Street. Yeah, apparently not. That nightmare on Elm Street got better than average scores, but slightly better. Hey, I got a quick question for you. Of the what I would consider the original slasher. Ah, like the big the big hitters, I’d say there’s five, right? I’d say there’s Friday, 13th Halloween nightmare on Elm Street. Um, and I don’t know where the fifth, where I had the idea that there was 1\/5 but it’s child’s play be a child’s plays, is the other one Which of those of what you have seen thus far, Which of those Siri’s do you enjoy the most, Um and why? No, I think it’s kind of a tie between ah, nightmare on Elm Street and child’s play. It’s just more creative, like there’s lots of more ways and go with it. I think I think the villains are both, like about on par with each other in terms of interesting and and menace. Yeah, like I’m really appreciate child’s play And how how fucking disturbing that movie actually is like, and And I feel like I can get behind the comedy of all the rest of the child’s plays and the cultish kind of feel of it. You know, the runner up for me is definitely Friday the 13th though while I’ve only seen a handful of them, like specifically, the 1st 2 are so good. I really enjoyed him. Ah, lot. So, yeah, I think most slashers just blend in together and like, it just has to have an added element for me If it’s just a guy killing people. Yeah, I don’t know. Gonna fart on rice here. All right, let’s wrap up so we can have a hellhole with fart infested. We got to record the after pie. Uh, thanks for listening. I don’t know what it is about, and I just always assumed that this one will be a quick one, and then we hit, like, an hour 30 anyways. Yeah, it’s just the way it is. Well, we had to tell the great White Hunter story, so thanks for listening. I know there’s not a lot of people listening to this point. Hey, if you guys, if you guys want some access to some good content, I’m gonna tell a story on the after pod about how my wife fucked up our children. Really good. Um, not not. She didn’t mean is just a three year old that she gave a scary book, too, and thinking it would help. But it’s a good. So check out our patriotic yes, if you want that goto patri on and sign up for one of the tears that gets access to the after pods. Um, please. If you enjoyed the show, share this podcast with the friend. It’s really hard to discover podcasts. So if you like a podcast, it’s really important for listeners to share it with people and mention it. Also, we would love if you would leave rating on apple podcasts. You don’t even have to leave a review just a rating and would be great. Smash those stars smash that like button ring that bail. You’re gonna buy anything on Amazon coming up Goto horror movie talk dot com and click through on the buy on Amazon button. Just so weakened. Get a little taste of that. Bookmark that button, baby. Check out shutter dot com. Use h empty a check out to get a 30 day free trial that covers all the Halloween bitches Do it. And so, uh, please join us again next week where it will be talking about. I believe it’s pumpkinhead. Pumpkinhead? Yeah, Yeah, the the the low on the totem pole Slasher monster flick That doesn’t get enough respect. What I’m is what I’m told. I haven’t seen it, but we’ll review that next week. Right? Thanks again to our patrons for being so generous and supporting the show. You are rock stars. And until next time, this was horror movie talk. Get heated on C on the flip flap. It’d take that shit you did.

The first thing you need to know about this film is that director Kevin Smith is a bullshitter, and he writes like a bullshitter. All of his characters sound like bullshitters, and it’s bullshit.

Much of this film is taken up with repetitive dialogue and unnecessary exposition.

Kevin Smith’s Failures

The direction on this film is truly terrible. Arbitrary flashbacks, forecasted super obvious plot twists, and terrible pacing marred the movie. But the real tragedy is the fundamental misunderstanding about what makes a body horror film work: dread, and disgust.

Check Out Our Review of Ready or Not

In terms of storytelling. the movie blows its load way too early. No care is given to extending out the dread or body transformation.

The main spoiler of the film is that Howard Howe surgically transforms Wallace into a Walrus.

The Walrus-Man Reveal

The reveal is terrible. It looks so much worse than I expected. If you were to imagine in your mind a human surgically turned into a walrus, take that idea, but then think of what a cosplayer of that idea at a Topeka, Kansas comi-con would look like. That’s along the lines of what the walrus-man looks like.

Smith made the worst possible decision, and decided to show the Walrus in flat medium to wide shots for the rest of the film.

A note to future budget filmmakers: if you have a terrible cheap looking monster design, go the Jaws route and don’t show it.

Mocking Canadians. Lamely

Instead, what Smith focused his story on is lame humor mocking Canadians. Remember that Canadians say “aboot” and “eh”? Well, too bad, Kevin Smith is going to remind you how hilarious that is for an hour and 45 minutes.

Johnny Depp is in this film, and exercises a ridiculous, yet still unfunny French Canadian accent.

The only real reason that Johnny is in this movie is because his daughter along with Smith’s daughter play clerks in a Canadian mini mart.

One of the most interesting scenes is probably the one where Depp and Parks play opposite each other and compete to see how much of the scenery each of them can eat.

The ending features a fight to the death between Howard Howe in a Walrus suit and Wallace as the transformed Walrus monstrosity. Long wins. Who cares?

In the epilogue, Wallace is shown being visited by his former girlfriend and former podcast co-host who then toss him a fish to eat.

this episode of horror movie talk brought to you by your wife’s moisturizer. You’re a man, so you don’t care about soft skin. But you also want to do unspeakable things with those sandpaper textured hands. Well, look no further than your wife’s moisturizer to quick splits is all that you need to send yourself to Pleasure Town, followed by a quick jaunt through Shame County, ending with your arrival at disgusted Resolve City. Yes, your hands and unspeakable regions will never be softer or smell more like lavender than after you use your wife’s moisturizer. And now from the same people that brought you your wife’s moisturizer, try your wife’s near sock for when you got a Put Something somewhere. Hello and welcome to horror movie talk and opinionated and accidentally funny Horror Movie review Show your panel of expert hosts each week are Dr Bryce Hanson, who holds a PH-Boo in spookology. Oh, and adjunct professor David Day, the foremost expert on scare No nose. New theatrical releases always get priority, but we also review older horror movies both good and horrible, and I’m Davide man. I always need to put something somewhere. It seems, ah Welcome to horror movie talk. Before we get started, I want to tell you about this great website called Horror movie talk dot com. Do tell me more. It features past episodes of your favorite podcast horror movie talk, as well as links to social media and blog’s on horror movie topics. Yeah, it’s true. It’s true. Also has some links up with the top where you can help us out a whole bunch. But we’ll get into that later. You which is? We should do a whole. We should do this episode high energy like other podcasts. Okay, let’s do it. Let’s do it So we got everybody. If you’re new to horror movie talk, we post every Wednesday. So subscribing Smash that rating button. Bring that mouth smash the slap. That five star rating. We’re really, really. So if you love the podcast, check out positive. A cast from Davide, another podcast about positivity. Today we got a great show, David, What do you think? We’ve got a great show today. We got the best show, and one will be talking about us seemingly made for TV movie. We’ll be given a brief review and our score for the movie we scored on a scale of 1 to 10 1 being a miserable dread that make you angry. Five. Be an average film that hits all the expected marks and 10 being so good at transcends genre boundaries. What are those? I don’t know. Those are big words. After we give our score, we’ll get into spoilers and take a deeper dive into what we liked and hated about the food fil film move movie. My takeaway on this Is that your impression of professional radios? Are they are they? They talk so quickly that there nearly in conference about you’re just like Oh my God, there’s words coming at me quickly. Most most radio personalities probably enunciate. That’s that’s where they’ve got me. So, um, take a deeper dive in the light. What we like to hate about every move leader will be doing taglines choked on my coffee. Uh, would you be doing taglines and horror movie news? Oh God, those other podcasts that like our super high energy and it’s just one person talking after the other over. I just started listening toe last podcast on the left. They have, like the series on the Mormon religion, and it’s just like back. I don’t know if it’s the editing or they’re just like each just waiting to spring on each other after someone finishes a sentence. Yeah, yeah, I mean, it’s a strange thing. It’s like what you grew up listening to write, which is, like, for me. It’s Stern and Opie and Anthony and neither of those format and then Adam Corolla, you know, And none of those formats were ever, like, jump on you. Yeah, it somehow like there was there was like, there’s, like, a couple different echelons of radio, you know? And the echelon right below the the one that I like, Uh, which is, you know, just a talk variety. Our kind of thing is, you know, a professional deejay, right? Or just like a morning zoo. Yeah. Lower morning zoo. Exactly where it’s just like, Good Lord. Are you insane? And the answer is kind of Yeah, yeah. Anyways, we’ll have to do I That’s we’ll have to build up endurance. I think that’s a far as I can go today. I Yeah, I mean my sphincters a little wobbly after it’s it’s alarming having you and you haven’t even talked having you know it’s alarming because your energy is palpable and it’s not normal. Normally there’s a little bit of, ah, black hole on that, Andi. So I’m Ah, so right now I’m I’m a little overwhelmed. Okay, Um, so let’s let’s get into the movie. Um, I just want Yeah, my levels were right. So after multiple patrons and listeners requested, we sat down and watched Tusk. Yes, we did. Yes, we did. It’s available for free streaming on Netflix, and we regret our decision. What the fuck is the matter with you? People like you think we aren’t gonna go hard in the paint on you? We will wage war. All right, here’s the trailer. Always do sober. What you do drunk. I’m gonna teach you to keep your mouth shut up. Hemingway said that? Yes, he did. He said it to me. I don’t want you to go to Canada. Its form for the podcast. It’s what I do. I travel around and I interview weird or interesting people. So look out, you crazy. Canucks 100. Wallace takes a raunchy road trip up to the great White North. Hello. I have an old man who has enjoyed a long and storied life at sea and after e owns oceanic adventure. I know. I do not wish to spend my remaining years alone. Why have stories to share? How far is by frost from here? It’s about two hours from here to a dude two hours away. Hate American guys. Good evening. Nice to meet you. Could I interest you in some tea? So what happened after the boat sank? I was alone. I’m dead or something. Very swift and frightening. Moved by me. A walrus saved your life. The walrus is far more evolved in any man present company included. Thank you. You’re welcome. There, there. And we all ride Mr Tough. He hasn’t called me in three days. I’m worried. What? You really morning your humanity. I don’t understand the hell I want to be human back. Wait, So I think Yeah, watching that trailer reminded me why I wanted to see the movie. Because the trailer is actually pretty great. It looks like a very promising movie because it doesn’t show you. Oh, man. So this is this is a hit piece. This podcast right now, if you’re a huge fan of task Well, first of all, I don’t know if we can be friends. Yeah, second of all, we’re going to tell you why you’re wrong. Tusk is a horror movie brought to you by the same day that brought you yoga, hosers and cop out. He now brings you a body horror movie based on a joke. Craigslist personal ad. Justin Long plays walrus. I mean Wallace Brighton, who runs a podcast with friend Teddy Craft, played by Haley Joel Osmond. You remember him right there. Podcast is mostly based off of making fun of Internet cringe videos, and as such, Wallace flies to Canada to interview this movies. This movie universe is equivalent of the Star Wars kid. When Wallace arrives, he finds out, hilariously that his interview he has killed himself. Desperate to find material for their upcoming episode, Wallace discovers a bizarre personal ad in the bathroom stall of a bar, which is normally like a really good idea to respond to personal ads inside shady bars. Yeah, no, but this didn’t work out too great for him. He goes to meet an enigmatic, retired seamen named Howard. How semen way. We’re no better than the movie now played by Michael Parks. Mr Howard tells tale of his adventures at sea and of a particular shipwreck where he was miraculously saved by a passing walrus before long wallet walrus. Before long, Wallace finds himself drug and captive to Howard’s twisted plot to recreate his walrus savior at Wallace’s expense. Sound interesting? It’s not. I’m so irritated. I’m so fucking irritated right now. The fact that he named him Wallace like that just it Zez everything you need to know right there. What you just name be. Well, we’re going to turn him into a walrus, so it should probably name Wallace. At the very least, it should have been the last name Ready Should been like Robert Wallace. Test is what you get when you make a movie based on a joke. The premises entertaining enough for a fake trailer but not a feature length film. And definitely not when Kevin Smith is at the helm. I was expecting a lot more, but the commitment and budget wasn’t there. To pull off an intense and twisted body horror tale. The film was shot in 15 days with $3 million it somehow feels more rushed and cheaper than that. I’ll give him credit. 50 days is pretty quick. 15 days is very, very quick. Ah, the It’s impressive the talent that he was able to pull in, I assume, just with his name. Yeah, but, man, I I’d be surprised if he was able to do it again. This is a one and done kind of thing because anybody who catches wind of this well, he had already here and he pulled in Michael Parks for Red State. And he basically said that you wouldn’t make this film unless Michael Parkes played Howard. Um, and then Johnny Depp somehow got in this. The thing I found out is that those clerks in the minute mark the Canadian minute mark were Kevin Smith’s daughter and Johnny Depp’s daughter. So I wonder how much it’s like just a Johnny have time wanting to do something with his daughter. Yeah, you know, I don’t know if you’re going to get to the fact that this is part of, ah, like a light trilogy. Not really. I mean, yeah, so it’s kind of like a Canadian trilogy, and I can’t imagine how unspeakably unfunny the other ones are. But there’s yoga Hosers. There’s Tusk. And then there’s, um, most tooth or something like that. Something to be released? Yeah, there’s like Moose jars. Something with Moose. Yeah, okay, because Canada. So instead of focusing on the dread of slowly spoilers being turned into a walrus, Smith focuses on creating a panoply of redundant characters. They’re delivering redundant dialogue at length for a body horror film. There’s very little care given to the design and the shooting of the actual body horror. Shockingly, shockingly, A Smith blows his load halfway through the film and really has nowhere to go after that. It’s truly it’s like it’s shocking. It’s astounding that he’s, I mean, he’s not a bad story teller. No, he’s specifically a good storyteller. But I mean, does follow That guy does is the reveal is so bad. It’s just so bad. And then you’re just like, Oh, that’s That’s it, like that’s where that’s what we’ve got for this film. And then it’s just like all right now on to the interesting part. And let’s be clear, hilarious detective work, clean chewing Johnny Depp And let’s be clear, I was excited about this movie like I was like, Yeah, Tusk Let’s go. Yeah, I wanted to see this one for a while. It’s one of those that you’re like. I’ve heard about it like everybody has been, like, really seared that. Yeah, I’m really curious about it. See, that’s the thing. I haven’t heard people talk about it, and that’s usually what keeps me from seeing it. Like I’ll look at the trailer and say, This looks very interesting. I’m putting that on my cue. Who? But the thing that tips me over the edge to actually watching it is if someone mentions it in a good light. And I don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone rave about the film or say that it was actually work worth watching. But now that we have a horror movie podcast, everyone wants this. Submit our time and brains, too. Yeah, the stuff that well, there’s a few things going on there, right? Like Okay, first of all, first of all, that there’s a few reasons why I think people referred the US to this movie and and I would like to point out that no one has has referred to me going. You’ll love it. There just been like they wanted to hear what we say. You please watch this. And then they slap it down on the table and slide it across to us and their eyes have some sort of weird, fucked up fire behind him. And we’re like, Okay, but so and then also, this is a movie about podcasters. All right, so now we’re getting a little meta with the people suggesting right? Hey, you should watch this horror movie about podcasters you horror movie podcast hosts. And so now we’re in too deep and and oh, man, I just had such high expectations because partially because of, like, the aftereffect, the afterglow that I had I still have for movies like Dogma and Clerks and you know, all my middle school chuckle fest bust, a nut and sort of sophomoric humor from Kevin Smith. I love a lot of Kevin Smith movies, but this is just unbelievably poorly done. Yeah, he is is not in his wheelhouse. Let’s just say that Yeah, he should be ashamed. Even even more recent ones that have been better. Not great, but actually interesting, at the very least, So red state was pretty good. That one with, um, Mallrats. No, not Mallrats. What’s the other one? There is Red State and the one that just the guy. I was pissed off it. Rude people. Yeah, I don’t know. I can’t write that one’s called anyways. Like Kevin Smith is hit or miss in my mind. Sometimes he tries to overstep his boundaries and try to be a little more ambitious than he has the capacity for. This is definitely one of those. Yes, this is pretty clear. Like I kept kept coming back to the saying, Oh, he’s trying to be a Quentin Tarantino in this, right? Like he’s trying to write dialogue like pithy dialogue, but he has no idea what that looks like. He just has no idea. He just can’t. Yeah, that’s my first point when we get into the spoilers. Um ah, but let’s talk about our score for the movie. Um, so with all that being said, all that being said, this was see, I was rested for this, like normally if I give like a really low scores because like, I just wasn’t paying attention because I was so tired. But this one, I I put down a three, and then I changed it to a two because I’m like, What? What was? I didn’t laugh at all in this movie. I might have laughed once unintentionally for an unintentional like funny thing. Just like, What are you doing? Like what the fuck not like, Wow, that’s shocking. Or that’s over the top. It’s just like, Wow, that’s really inept. But for the most part, I just got angry that the dialogue was so redundant and so repetitive and it was just It was really bad. It was bad. Now, now there’s a little bit of a letdown factor to this, right? This is not true. This is not a terrible, terrible, terrible movie. I understood in that I understood what was happening at any given point, right? So it makes sense in so far as what is trying to make sense at. It’s just a It’s just a ah slapdash movie put together by a notable filmmaker. Yeah, and a notable film maker who has a lot of feels from my childhood attached to him and a lot of expectation from me. So in that regard, it’s not a normal too. But I wouldn’t say you’re wrong because with great responsibility, with great power comes great responsibility. Kevin Smith. You should know this comic book enthusiast, slash writer, and I know D. C is more your thing, but, you know, you can you can take a little card out a spider man’s book. Thank you. So, yeah, I don’t have a strong opinion on this, which is probably more damning than anything. That’s like, I don’t give a shit what what we rate. This is definitely a a three. Definitely a three. Yeah, it’s just a let down. Yeah, I think I think the thing that pushed me over the edge from a 3 to 2 is, um, the dialogue is truly, like boring. It’s so good. It’s so the pacing is so bad, it’s very bad. And then an utterly fails at the genre of body horror up like it just does a very, very bad job falls flat on its face. It didn’t the The idea that this is Bodie whore is absurd. It it’s it’s body horror in husk like that’s the husk that this comes out in. But then it doesn’t do anything with the body horror genre. There is no man. I mean, I think about it. It’s not like you didn’t try and that there’s not, like the elements that are You would expect to be there, but they’re just pulled off so bad. Yeah, like the transition just happened way too quick. Quick. There’s no meat on those bones on that transition from, like, All right, now it’s happening. Your metamorphosis. The supposed to be the culmination of the whole movie. All the interesting stuff. All right. Okay. Throw that sock away. Yeah. Uh, yeah. He’s focuses so much time and energy on dialogue on unlike jokey, like tired, stereotypical jokes. And Jason Muse isn’t even in it. Like like, if you’re going to do that, at least have somebody who’s strange and interesting to watch. Do it? Yeah. You don’t think Johnny Depp is strange and interesting? It’s not that I don’t think Johnny Depp is strange and interesting. No, I don’t think Charlie to have a situation interesting, actually, now that you mention it. Okay. So, uh, let’s move on to spoilers. All right, so we’ve already talked about it, But there was one observation that I made about Kevin Smith’s dialogue style. And if you’ve listened to Kevin Smith tell stories for his podcast you mean you sh mod cast. You should know Kevin Smith is a bullshitter. He’s one of those guys that can tell a story that captivates your attention. But if you step back, you realize that it’s a lot of unnecessary information. It’s just a lot of color and not a lot of substance, necessarily right. And if you step back here like, oh, so you’re just you’re just kind of being awkward. Yeah, that’s that’s the takeaway. If you if you sift it, sift through all the bullshit is that it’s a very normal occurrence that happened. Well, you have. You have in, like, one paragraph. You’ve stripped him totally nude. Did it? Can you imagine how awkward something I don’t know. Maybe he’s so good at Deflection and that kind of thing that that this you know, if he heard your words, if he heard you say those things and they rang totally true, he would he would say, Oh, yeah, that’s absolutely 100% correct. Are you kidding me? That’s me. Yes, of course it’s me. Everybody knows that’s me. Good job, professor. And it’s like, um so as such. He he’s a screenwriter that writes like a bullshitter. Yeah, so all of his character sound like bullshit? Er’s. And in this circumstance, it’s bullshit. Well said, Um, he’s not. So here’s the difference between Quentin Tarantino and can’t believe Kevin Smith. They’re both very, very good talkers. That’s Tran. They’re both homely, homely, issue gentlemen, or have spent a good part of their life being not good, looking enough for the women that they would like to have right. Much like a lot of people. I don’t know if Kevin Smith likes to fuck feet, but I wouldn’t be surprised. Um, but Quintero, both of them when they’re writing the dialogue and the characters speaking the dialogue, are prone to sound like them. Like Quentin Tarantino, script sounds like Quentin Tarantino, right? And Kevin Smith sounds like Kevin Smith. But the difference between um, the dialogue is like I said, Kevin Smith is a bullshitter. And so the bullshitting comes through. But with with Tarantino, there’s like a vast amount of pop culture knowledge and nuance and like opinions and strong, intelligent and taste that comes through yeah, intelligence, Which is this laundry list of good things that that Quentin Tarantino has that Kevin Smith doesn’t. And yes, I I am constantly on Tarantino’s nuts. I don’t think he’s ever made a bad movie. Look, the the on Lee. I mean, even the most recent ones, which are not even necessarily my favorite, are better than 90% of any movies that have ever been made. Yeah, the problem is, and the thing that Kevin Smith would say in rebuttal to this is you’re comparing me to the best filmmaker of all time and thank you very much. And it’s like, Yeah, but shut the fuck up because it’s clear you were trunk like you were comparing yourself to Quentin Tarantino when you made this movie, and if you weren’t I mean, boy, it sure does look like it right. And then the other thing is outside of screenwriting. Quentin Tarantino is a master director, like if he was not a screenwriter, he could tell the story of any any script on film because he is excellent at directing and portraying the story in whatever genre he chooses. Yes, so it’s distinctly his, but also distinctly of the genre. And, ah, Kevin Smith obviously does not have that in his favor. He’s he’s kind of a one trick pony. If it’s like, you know, younger twenties and probably now, like middle age guy friends that are bullshitting and talking about relationships and, um, comic books, their inability to handle interpersonal conflict, then, yes, probably gonna be okay for Kevin Smith. But if he’s gonna do like a nuanced genre film, he’s just not going anyway. Moving on. So the origin of this film, the idea, actually came, um, about after a man in Brighton, England, put out an ad in this. It’s like a Craigslist type site called Gum Tree. Ah, he offered free rent to anyone willing to dress in a walrus suit and pretend to be said Animal for two hours a day. The advert turned out to be a hoax by a writer poet, Chris Parkinson. But after Kevin Smith discussed it on a smart cast with his co host, Scott Moy Mosier, he began a mole. The idea of turning in the turning it into a feature length film. Hey said something snapped in my brain, and it’s only happened one other time in my life. That other time was 20 years ago, when I wondered why people didn’t make movies about me and my friends talking about movies and pushy and star wars. So I did. And it was Clerks. Smith said. So, uh, that’s also probably something you’d say if he knew you made a piece of shit. Oh, is this Remind me the reason why I made this movie is it’s exactly the same reason as I made that movie that you actually like. Um, so I mean, I thought it was interesting. That is not even an original idea. It’s not like they they, uh, like improv it on the show. Right? It’s literally someone else’s funny idea. Inspired by yes, taking us, like, altered to there purpose of Reverend. Um, yeah, it’s, um and I can, you know, And in that format on, you know, as an interesting topic t bring up and talk about on on kind of an all purpose the topics podcast. This story is fun and works, you know, thing is exactly the kind of stuff you want to talk about. Bring up not the kind of thing you also want. I mean, you know what? Actually all even reverse that this could this movie. It could have been with this concept awesome. It could have you in your fucking awesome. Yeah, if you had given this movie to GM Road Del Toro? Yes. And he had the same budget. Three million? Probably even the same. Well, not the same script they have. Yeah. No makes no. Yeah, but if they gave this to, like, a really good body whore, direct or like Cronenberg or something, I wonder what Cronenberg could do with this on $3 million? I don’t know, but it be a lot better. This is the concept the bones of this thing could have been. The bones of this thing could have been Ah, could have been great. You could have had a really crazy cool story, but in effect, there was ah lot of blubber. There’s a lot of fat on the bone a minute. Okay, um so before going very much further, it should be said Michael Parks is the best part of this film. Oh, hell, yeah. He’s great in anything he’s in. Um, Michael Parks is kind of chameleon. You don’t really recognize him that much. That the part that I was like I was astounded at and I was a huge fan of them ever since kill Bill because and kill Bill. He played two characters on one in each film. The 1st 1 he was the sheriff that discovers the bride. Fantastic character outer. And then in the 2nd 1 he’s the, like cigar during Hunter. And, like, drug Lord pimp. Yeah, um, and they’re so different. And he was able to portray that. So each character so well that I had no idea that it was the same actor until the commentary. Yeah, he, um and that Honduran pimp, the the cigar sucking, kind of lazy eyed, lazy blinking it took place in. He was that same character in this movie. Basically, he was not far from it. Ah, yeah, yeah, we got a lot of the same affect. I got a lot of the same feel. It’s interesting that you I say that I didn’t I didn’t see that. This one is, like very much like it. Well, yes, he’s a distinguished gentleman. And both of them, Yeah, it kind of sits there and smokes and ponders and tells a story and right? Yeah, that’s yeah, it’s Ah, I see it now. Yeah, so that he’s the best part. The worst part is the direction is truly terrible. And and and the script s so there’s arbitrary flashbacks that tell super obvious twists And just fuck with the pacing so bad. Look, that you’re just like what? Why, though, like you, you know you have to leave the action. You need to leave like the tension of the the one storyline of him being held captive. You have to leave it for something else. And what he chooses to leave it for is just like who cares like it should. There’s sometimes, like, just kind of a template that you that you can use for the genre’s you know, you said, you have someone told captive, Um, something bad is happening and then the B story line is the people that love them notice that they’re gone and are trying to find out where they are. Yeah, like, that’s a very tried and true template, and sometimes you should just do that. Would you? Would you mind if so, So far we’ve just been ripping this thing apart, but we haven’t really given the basics of what happened in the in the movie. Would you mind if I ran it down real quick. Yeah, I mean, it’s pretty. It’s pretty basic. You go ahead. Yeah. Yeah. So this podcast, they, you know, they’re Why would they send one of the two guys? Who is the guy that they sent? What’s his Wallace Wallace. But what? Who? What is his actual name as a Justin Long? Justin Long. Thank you. You would recognize Justin Long. He’s the Mac guy. Yeah. And, um And so they sent him to the Great White North to interview a ah, viral video sensation who once he got there is revealed this kid killed himself. So now Justin Long has to has to find some other interesting story to talk about. So when he’s in the bar up in realize that if said all this in the synopsis, right? Oh, you did? I’m sorry. I was thinking about how horrible this movie. So the part that I haven’t covered is is when he gets there. Michael Parks. His character tells this story, and it’s kind of like, super interesting guy and Justin Long’s character, the podcasters like I could totally use. This is an air view. He gives him some tea, just tea, and then, as he’s telling him the story about being saved by this walrus and how important it was in his life. Justin Long faints clearly the whole time. It’s just very obvious that the tea is drug. It’s like here is some tea and just long is like I love taste. This tastes really weird. What’s in this Drugs? So and then he wakes up and very quickly you realized that well, I mean at right, as Justin Long’s character faints and it’s even in the trailer. Howard House. Howard How the character that that Michael Parkes Place says, you know, go to sleep, Mr Tusk. And so that’s the name of the Walrus that saved. And so it’s pretty obvious that he’s got out there very quickly. He’s got a thing for walruses and expends no time and just saying he’s gonna turn Justin long into a walrus, Right? That’s the premise of this film, and I think pretty much everyone that knows about this film knows that’s what it’s about. Yes, there’s a very thin veil of, Of like, Why am I here? How why why did you amputate my leg? And he’s like, Ah, spider bitch! It was a brown recluse, also known as the whole Both Spider and that bitch and I had to amputate. Will had to have your own a leg amputated. Hey, you know, you’re under some heavy sedation and then he wakes up again and he’s a Wallace. It’s like, Okay, like And that’s literally that’s literally the movie like we could stop with like we could. And then this friends find him and he’s made a full metamorphosis into this is I mean, there’s not even a slow. I mean, there’s like maybe two seems, but really so then there is a tremendous There’s like a 40 minute long dialogue with Johnny Depp, who’s who’s a detective who’s who’s hot on the trail. Canadian detective who’s hot on the trail of the serial killer who mutilates his but never sexually touches, which I don’t know why. That’s interesting. That’s anti interesting. He never, ever sexually gets. And so I mean, it’s not even like it doesn’t play at all with the body whore. It’s not, you know, which is also kind of a missed opportunity, in my opinion. Yes, they make a big deal. Okay, this is this is like a sidestep, but they make this big deal about showing the walruses Penis bone, yeah, on the mantel and talking about like a Penis bone penises in right. And they make this big deal out of of Howard of Mr Howard’s character getting just horribly abused when he was younger. And so you’d think there’d be, like, some kind of weird, deviant sexual thing like, No, that’s just just so stupid walrus suit. And then they fight. What’s the the So the main points of like about a body horror are he faints? He wakes up, his legs amputated. He’s like, What the fuck? And Mr Howard’s like, Ah, it’s just a spider And he faints, gets drug again and takes his other leg and kind of so’s his arms together. And then I don’t even think we see his reaction to that. Like we don’t see Justin Long waking up after that particular operation the operation could have been, could have been 10 minutes long and horrific, horrifically gory. Look, I’m not a body horn, and there’s like, two operations, but one of them doesn’t even matter because you don’t see his reaction to it. All right? And then there’s another operation where it’s like the full transformation and then the reveal immediate. I mean, it’s within a span of it happens at the middle of it. It’s like there is exactly three minutes of this body horror movie devoted to body whore like, and it’s an hour and 40 minutes long, and there is, I mean, that I don’t know if that’s the exact time, but that’s what it feels like. No, it is it. Like an hour 42. No, I mean the amount of time they spent on the body or yeah, yeah, it feels so insignificant to the amount of time. Yeah, and it’s e. I mean, look, I’m not a body horror guy. I don’t like it. I’m just saying, if you’re trying for that, just go for it. You do that? So, uh, so at some point, um, after he gets and his leg is amputated, this first leg is amputated. Wallace calls his girlfriend but doesn’t give an address or any useful information you are, which is great, which is a pretty lengthy call. It was like a you know, two or three minute voicemail, but he doesn’t like, say, this is the town. I’m in. Look, I’m pretty sure I can’t remember in my whole Social Security number, but the last four is definitely 44 to 1, and there’s no use it. She just gives her everything in the kitchen sink except right, all of the useful stuff. Um, we’ve already talked about how this movie blows. It slowed way too early. No care is given to extending out the dread or the body transformation. It’s it feels so insignificant. So let’s talk about the actual reveal and how terrible it is. It looks so much worse than I expected. I like. I’m still they spent. They spent so much camera time looking directly at this horrible walrus costume. I can’t believe it. It’s like $3 million. You imagine your head if you haven’t seen this movie and you? I have watched the trailer, doesn’t show anything. And if you were to imagine in your head, what would it look like if someone surgically turned someone into a walrus? Go ahead. I have that picture in your mind. Imagine a good movie was made out of that. Okay, Now imagine someone at the San Diego comic con did like pretty good cosplay of it. Okay, so put that picture in your mind. Okay? Now picture someone in like a Portland, Oregon comic con Ah! Ah, That’s the sauce play of it. A significantly smaller, less well attended comic con. Okay, now, now think of someone in like like Henderson, Texas, comic Con Forks, Washington comic con attended by six people. Okay, okay, that is the cosplay. The person that goes as cosplay for that That movie. That’s what the actual design looked like in this film. This is not an exaggeration. It’s It’s like a big latex. And the real damning part of it is how how he moves in the costume. They don’t go to any length at all to try and hide the fact that this is just basically a big plastic bag around around him. He’s like when he retracts his head into the costume it like and it’s and it’s just very clearly a big latex bag. Weird. Why would you show this literally looks like just latex foam? So it’s not even like he’s in a bag full of blubber? No, it just feels like Yes. Oh, it’s so bad. I can’t underline how bad it is. So in a circumstance circumstance like this, if you have a terrible, cheap looking monster design that’s not scary and looks ridiculous, you have to go the job’s route. You do not show it. You show it in flashes, right? You show like the aftereffects of its presence. Yeah, you show all these things fleeting but disturbing imagery. He tries to do that leading up to it. But even that isn’t super effective because it’s the design is so bad that it looks fake. Yeah, just it’s this is the other one. Okay, is the better analogy. Get rid of all the comic con cosplay stuff. All right, The costume looks like it’s from a Conan O’Brien sketch air We go. That’s that’s what guys made a walrus costume. Yes, unlike Late Night, Conan O’Brien’s like early Conan O’Brien with, you know, back when, uh, what was that pimp bought? 3000? Yeah, Or like the masturbating bear. So this is like minty, the candy cane that fell on the ground level. That scotch tape is involved. Yeah, anyways, and they just he just does not know how to shoot it or make it interesting at all. It’s looks like there is isn’t that scary? Now let’s just keep looking at it in a wide shot. I keep us. That’s the most interesting thing we can do. I keep wanting to give them the benefit of the doubt and say It’s it’s intentionally ironic, but it’s just intentionally shitty or even just the lighting If they let it different or this made of more like like slimy M or something, It was just so bad, and it happens at the midpoint of the film. It’s over at that point that there’s nothing left in your film and, like the Onley thing left and I’ll skip forward to the very ending. The Onley thing left is there’s a fight to the death of Justin Long’s character and Michael Parkes character, and Michael Park is dressed in a walrus suit, and it it is like as much as it would. It can redeem itself. It it kind of is interesting at that point, and then it dwells on that for like, half a minute, and then it’s over. OK, so where did the $3 million go? Bryce. So the maternity Where did it go? Did it go to the soundtrack to get that Tusks? Yes, exactly. Or but why the fuck did they go for the the like? That’s the layup like That’s the layup song go for I am the Walrus. If you got $3 million like, why are you? Why are you going with who’s saying that? Fleetwood Mac What? Where you going with Fleetwood Mac when you could have the Beatles? All right, I think it was a good choice. That’s that’s a great choice. It’s well for this movie because it’s a B side, but yeah, Kevin Smith even said himself that, like most of the budget, was spent on licensing that I mean, probably not a lot of the budget was spent unlicensed. Sing that song. That’s a pretty big song. We’ll see if we’ll see what get pulled off a YouTube for two and 1\/2 seconds of that. But ah yeah, it’s just so bad. All right, So let’s move on to some other things that the other bad things terrible jokes based off of tired Canadian stereotypes. Just not even interesting joke. Not even not. There’s no hey, did you know that Canadians say A and A boot and a boot did you know that it’s time that we know that they’re polite. This movie came out in 2014 in there, making jokes about that isn’t that funny? Let’s base an entire Let’s just really dwell on Canadian stereotypes and aren’t French Canadian hilarious. Let’s let’s put Johnny Depp in this. Do you care that Johnny Depp is in this Johnny Depp? Okay, No, First of all, no. You know what? You know what putting Johnny Depp in this movie does. It makes you go, Oh, shit. About 20 minutes into this to seeing that character you go. Oh, that’s That’s Johnny Depp. Yeah, he really was in a bunch of weird makeup and maybe a prosthetic, and I was like, Why are they making him up so much? Second, I didn’t recognize him, but then I looked. I’m like, Oh, it’s cause it’s Johnny Depp. By the time Johnny Depp shows up, the movie should be fucking over. But instead there’s 40 minutes left of Johnny Depp just kind of expounding on this serial killer who turns his victims into something we don’t know. What spoilers. It’s a walrus, Uh, and and then and then it’s just and then it’s just Johnny Depp. Just kind of just going to in the scenery. You sure in the senior is just just Johnny the ideas like, wouldn’t it be funny if Johnny Depp was did a ridiculous French Canadian accent? So So what? It turns out no, it’s not funny. Yeah, and what it accomplishes is like when the movie’s already over and you’re and you’re still supposedly telling a story, the audience halfway through goes, Oh, shit, that’s Johnny Depp and then gets on their phones to get on imdb to make sure that that’s actually Johnny Depp. So now you have half the audience just gone right? Oh, man, this movie, another be plot is Wallace is coupled it a cuckolded, edited by his friends and podcast partner, played by Haley Joel Osman. Do you care about that story line? I don’t except to say that Haley. I said this during while we were watching, but Haley Joel Osmond is just unfortunate looking because he looks like a child actor who grew up. Yeah, he’s He’s probably the most child actor that grew up pissed. Yeah, looking. I mean, Macaulay Culkin’s pretty close, I think the thing with Haley Joel Iseman. He’s still got I don’t want to, like, rag on somehow because mostly, like everyone looks like a weird version of the child themselves. Except you don’t actually get to know the weird version of Child. Exactly. Don’t see like you don’t miss the transition you see in the whole time. But with Haley, Joel Osmond has a particular thing where his face is very small. Yes, comparison to his head When he’s Yeah, it’s It’s strange because yeah, I don’t want a rag. He did a fine job. He’s Everything he’s been in has been great. He gave us six cents. Jesus Christ, like he was great. And, ah, most recently the boys on Amazon. You were telling me about that. You should watch that. But But all suffice does. Suffice it to say you don’t care about his story line or his character that gets way too much time, right? Um, talk about this. Briefly. Howard Howe was abused as a child by a community of pedophiles. Um, it feels like it’s what Smith is using as a reason for why he’s insane. Here’s Here’s the clip from From the Movie on. So for the next five years. I was beaten. I was tortured. I was raped. I had things in my mouth and no human being should have a taste. I never thought of you as a person. He just thought to use me. And usually they didn’t. Priests, politicians, interests, even the nurses. No night watchman alone. Which is all to satisfy the most peace, physical and financial desires through the rectum and lips of a child. Like I get it. You grew up Catholic, and you had a hard time because because And I mean, I like my heart goes out to anyone who was who was abused as a child. Like 100% right don’t like. And? And the whole point of this movie, like the through line on this movie, is like, Why would you want to be a person? It would better. It would be better to be just something as a name as a walrus, Right. But ah, boy, man, you could do a lot. You could do a lot more footwork. Yeah, it feels it feels a lot. It feels pretty cheap. Using that is like a plot point, but not actually like attaching it to anything other than just People are bad. Yeah, And again, like my heart goes out to eat to Kevin Smith. Like, I’m sorry for what happened here legitimately, but this was this was a bad way to do it. Yeah. Um, the scene with Johnny Depp and Michael Parkes is probably one of the most interesting parts of the movie. But I’m not going to say it’s good. It’s It’s meta interesting because they’re two actors just absolutely chewing the scenery. It’s Johnny Depp doing a ridiculous French Canadian accent and Michael Parkes doing like a almost touched. Yeah, he was a bit Southern American type accent. Yeah. Um, here’s Here’s a clip of that. Just to give you a taste. I have it. Here it is. Good afternoon. Tea, sir? I am Philip went So do kid Dick. Oh, Did you come here by a biter? You come here about the spider? Yeah, Yeah, Yes. Ah! All right. So this movie is basically a much worse version of the human centipede. But you brought this up while we were watching it. I just wanted to briefly touch on what human centipede did better. Ok, One of my favorite films. Yeah, human centipede is Bryce’s baby. Yeah, so Human Centipede drew out the explanation of what the doc was going to do. The people so part of, like the’s body horror movies, especially with a insane scientist, the draft is the insane scientist, explaining exactly what he’s going to do to you and why that’s like we’re half the horror comes from where you realize this guy is fucking insane. Yeah, and you have to sit and watch and see his delight at his idea. Yeah, it’s It’s the Clockwork Orange thing where they’re prying your eyes open and making you watch something you don’t want to watch. And it completely doesn’t do that in this film, um, human centipede. There’s a much slower passage of time and showing of the recovery process of the surgery, which is also like, just horrifying but also very interesting. And it just shows, like a lot of like, what would this actually be like? I just don’t want to watch him and send a beat so badly, and then the the tone. This is where, like just why it’s such a glorious fill. The tone I was trying to write down what the tone of human centipede is, and it’s so difficult to say exactly what it is. I imagine it’s It’s like hell on earth. It’s played so straight and committed. It’s so committed and but somehow still over the top. But it’s not like hacky. Uh, it’s it’s over the top and how much it’s playing it straight, right? It’s like it’s like saw if saw took itself even more seriously. So it just underlines the ridiculousness of the premise. And it feels like it grounds this horrible idea in this ridiculous premise in reality, which makes it horrifying, Um, and a really focused on the horror of the protagonist situation and Tusk like it just says like this happened. But it doesn’t really dwell on what the protagonist thinks about or they’re actually experience. It just it just shows them any screaming. That’s it. It’s silly that I mean, that’s all the years shown about, like, his experiences that it’s done in the East any any. He doesn’t like it. Yeah, um, the ending with the walrus duel to the death, it really could have been great. It was an interesting idea. Having Howard in like, another walrus suit and try to battle to the death with their tusks, but again felt firmly right on his face. From the directing standpoint, the choreography is terrible, like it’s literally just like if you’re lying next to each other and just kind of like rolling into each other. Yeah, that’s that’s it like and if that’s if you’re limited by the costumes, okay, that’s fine. But try to shoot it in a way that it looks like there’s something happening other than that. And it just didn’t. I just looked like I felt long, like a medium shot or a wide shot of them kind of nudging each other. And then it ends with Justin Long, like tackling the guy and stabbing him with his tasks is and it’s just that’s that’s and then another ending is tacked on with the girlfriend feeding a fish to him. And this is actually we missed it if we had listened or if we had watched all the all the credits. So we’ve been treated to this clip from the smog cast when they’re discussing the third, okay, we skip we skipped all the way to the very end of the of the credits because it looked like there was a like, there was a scene at the end. And they’re waas. Yeah. Welcome this podcast. I’m Kevin Smith. Scott Mosier. Oh, shit. All right, So here’s the third act. He then goes and puts on his suit, you know, made of human skins. And so you realize he’s done this before? Like, I’m not the first lodger and shit like that. So he’s in it. You’re in yours, and you guys have to have one. Morris fights on the beach. Always love each other on you. Start like we start saying is man indeed a walrus it hard. You ultimately get him and fuck, I think what has happened at the end is that once he makes that switch, yeah, he can’t go back like the clinic for the criminally insane or somewhere. And you see, you know, like his buddy, he’s got something wrapped in a newspaper. You know what’s going on? Yes, eyes awesome. And it is like it’s like another walrus enclave. A better version of where he waas because he realized they can’t reverse the process. Yeah, he’s funny. He’s got even in his head. He’s gone full walrus and he throws in the fish and then fucking the walrus man scurries over to it all gross and starts biting at it. The ground they play like some sad piano music roll credits as we pull back in this overhead watching fucking this facial, there’s a song that’s just like big sender in your way. Need a hashtag for this conversation. Needs to grow to hash tags. I am Field that inside. So this actually parlays nicely into something I was. I was mentioning about this movie. It’s written as a comic book. This this movie would work as a comic book very well. And by the way, if you’re not familiar, Kevin Smith does author comic books, and he’s good at it. Ah, really good at it, because because of that dialogue, you just heard that all plays very well on the page because it needs to be obvious. It needs to be exposition, all dialogue. It needs to be all of these things. So if you’re looking for good Kevin Smith comic books, go check out, I think, uh, he has a green arrow. One called my quiver or something like that. Check out that grate shit, not tusk. Yeah, um, to me the best possible ending would have been if they had just put him back together if they just like, yeah, put that, too, and just had him horribly like mangled and stuff. But that would be like the only thing they deem it like have a modicum of redemption for this film is if they just did something as ridiculous is like Oh, yeah, and then they just put him back together. And now he’s like, just a human again. But he’s got legs again, but instead they the most ridiculous. Like I get it like I like. I get the ironic, sad irony of putting him in a in a basically 1\/3 rate zoo in the middle of Manitoba somewhere. But it’s not. See that’s the thing like it goes from again that works in a comic book. Really well, it’s is like, Oh, he’s a walrus. He’s full walrus now, but like you never felt like he was still a human after the reveal anyways. And it’s yeah, and it’s not like it’s not like it’s wasted on me that this was just a goofy goof that was meant to be fun and funding for you to make. But, you know, I mean, presumably people paid to see this. It’s just a giant. Well, not a giant piece of shit. Not a lot, because it is the final bullet points. So $3 million was the budget, and the cumulative worldwide gross was $1.8 million. I’m sure they’re making that up on the back end because it’s been on Netflix for years. I don’t think they make millions of dollars from Netflix, though. I don’t know how. I don’t know. I mean, this is the kind of movie that the buzz around it before it was so large about like, how ridiculous would this movie be a movie about someone turning into a walrus? But you would assume that it would be able to make $3 million But it didnt mostly because anyone that saw it probably told other people, Don’t go see It is bad if I recall human center peed. That was actually so that was released in still in the era of I think that was, like 2007 or eight or nine. Yeah, maybe maybe even six, because I remember walking through the, you know, the Hollywood video and seeing, you know, a wall of human centipede, DVDs and being like, No, thank you. But but But then, you know, I mean, it really kept go like the the hype train for human centipede kept going because it was available was one of the first titles available when Netflix went streaming, I believe. And ah, and so I don’t know, I I don’t know what what? My point is on that other than to say, Ah, I think there’s a definite lane for this kind of movie and it be interesting if it was done right if there were more like human centipede. Not that I’m interested in watching them, because you but But this is very easy to stomach. In my opinion, this tusk is just Ah, yes. So we had two people request this, and I think they’re both patrons. I think a couple other people that were just reached out to some social media said, Check it out. So, um, we need more people asking for human centipede so I could make David watch it because he does not want to watch a video if you want us to review human centipede send us Ah, Senate Seema Info horror movie talk dot com or reach out on Facebook. Okay, so let’s move on to final recommendations. Who do you think should watch this Brown? Just just don’t pull a father like this is one that you should just search for clips on YouTube. Just get get the idea. Probably believe the only scene. I mean, it’s on Netflix, so you can skip through it. The only scenes that are interesting are the scene where Wallace and Howard are talking. When the introduction and an hour talking about his past and then him fainting skip forward to the reveal. Yeah, and that will give you a taste of, like, how much quality this movie is. Everything. Everything else is totally dispensed. Maybe maybe the very end, maybe, like the walrus fight and then the end scene with them feeding the fish Like it? Yeah, really? It’s only two things that it is on Netflix. So if you are watching looking for something horrific Ah, thio be on in the background. It is getting towards October. So I guess you could Yeah, this is but also the witches on Netflix. So watch for real I would rather watch the witch, like, five more times than watch this. Yes, but first time. Yes, but you don’t want you like you want to soak in every second of the witch. This you could just put on in the background. That’s right. Yeah. Maybe you could watch it while you’re working. Um, okay, So final recommendations is just, like, just don’t this problem, really? Don’t. Who would like it, though? Like whose? It would be a big fan of this. Oh, Kevin Smith. Fanboys mostly, uh, or, you know, people. I mean, this is one of those ones that’s a really low bar of entry into body horror. So if you if you like full moon production stuff, if you like, Just like absolute shitty horror movies to make fun of, This is Ah ah. Maybe close to that. Yeah, but but the So here’s here’s an interesting thought. So in order to get this made or gauge responsiveness of like who would like to see this story? Kevin Smith started a hashtag campaign of walrus. Yes. And hashtag walrus. Yes. And hashtag walrus. No. And and so you know, we could Dio is we could start that that campaign right back up and just ah, tweeted Kevin Smith hashtag walrus. No, just just light him up and and, you know, tag us horror movie talk in there and let’s see if let’s see if we can get Kevin Smith angrily rant and give us exactly what we want. Some some time on from his valuable is super valuable podcast This month, the podcast mum cast So, uh, so hashtag walrus. No. Yeah. Um, okay, let’s move on Thio Games and bits. New Way never did the mid roll. I don’t think so. We didn’t do the middle. So Hey, guys, if you would like to support the show if you if you find this funny or interesting or even annoying, you can go ahead and head on over to our website at horror movie talk dot com, check on out at the top of the page there. If you want to become a patron, that helps us out a whole lot. Still, only one tear on that five bucks a month gets you grandfathered into all the eventual tears that we will offer, and it gets you access to all after pods, which there’s quite a few of now, And that’s like kind of the therapy time after the show, where Bryce and I talk about are weak and, you know, and then we have a cry and then we laugh, and then we cry more so you can do that. Another way you can support us is there’s another button that just send you the Amazon. I think it’s linked to just all of the horror films that are available for DVD, but pretty much if you click on that link and buy anything on Amazon. Even if you’re like buying kitty litter, your monthly kitty litter or something, just click on that banner will get a little taste of what you spend on Amazon. Um, big, big news. I have big news. So there was some question about the shutter code. Not working. Our HMT code was not working with Shutter to get you. When at checkout, When you check out for shutter, you enter HMT it check out and it should get you 30 free day, 30 day free trial to shutter, which is, ah, horror movie streaming platform, and it’s really great, and I got it fixed. So get back on their if you’ve already signed up for Shutter, just use that HMT code on a different email address. Yeah, and Ah. And now we’re really trying Thio knock it out of the park with them because they’re actually gonna track They’re actually gonna track how we do instead of, I don’t know, potentially forgetting about us like they did before. Yeah, So I know there’s at least two people that said that they tried and it didn’t work. So we just want to let you know that that’s available again. We haven’t mentioned in the last couple episodes, but yeah, 30 day free trial on Shuter. If you use code hmt a chicken, please rush to shudder and use it. There’s all I think, the 1st 6 nightmare on Elm Street’s on Shuter streaming right now. If you like streaming horror, it’s the best way to go for sure. Um, finally, we’ve put a call out to ah to call for writers for our block if you’re interested in writing about horror movies, um, and horror movie topics not necessarily reviews, because that’s what we do in the episodes. But horror movie topics um, we’re accepting submissions reach out to us on Facebook or Twitter, and we’ll be happy to see what you got in. We could give you suggestions if you can’t come up with an idea. Yeah, and we’ve had some people reach out to us, and I’m super excited because it sounds like they are, you know, horror connoisseurs. And and so they have some interesting content coming your way soon. All right, let’s move on Years, tagline. Taglines is a game where we come up with alternate taglines for the movie we’re reviewing. So I’ll go first. You go first, actually. Yeah. Okay. Tusk. It takes a bite out of your time. Ah, Tusk. You’ve heard the saying that this cat has claws? Well, this walrus has heart tusk touching tale of a man who loves a walrus and a man who is a walrus. Dusk, Thea Oscar goes to Justin Long. He was He was shafted that year, man. I mean, he really should have got it. Yeah. I mean, how are you supposed to act with your tongue? Cut out Tusk Human scent ap Sorry, Tusk Human Centipede without all the fixings. Tusk. At least we know that Kevin Smith has less money to make movies like this Now Tusk picture a 10 minute long story stretched out in the one hour and 40 minutes and Oh, yeah, Johnny Depp That’s all I got. I got some more. OK, go for Tusk. It could have used Jay and silent Bob Tusk. I think a tusk the same way I think of people with blue hair. It’s just like, Oh, it exists. Yeah, look atyou. Let’s not interact with it. Let’s I know everything I need to know about you now. Oh, I was thinking like elderly people. Blue hairs like blue hair. No, I’m talking about, like, dyed blue hair. Okay? Yeah, It’s just like, Oh, yeah. And you all have the same picture. We’re all thinking of the same person. Um, I think I have one more. Ah Ah, yeah, I don’t actually, if they this would have been a very interesting film if it was a Jay and Silent Bob sequel, right? If it was silent Bob, that was turned into the walrus. Whoa, Dude, look at this crazy crap is going on over here. And that’s this. Worst J was just like observing. Yeah, Yeah, I really could have called him Fat boy. Okay, last bit. Gonna talk some horror movie news s so we don’t have to cover all of this. I’ve put a bunch of quotes in here If there’s anything interesting that we actually want to go deeper into. Netflix is S O Netflix just released a trailer for their Netflix and Chills event kind of event things. So it’s a special Halloween season release schedule of four original horror movies who so first on September 27th they’re gonna put out in the shadow of the moon. Um, but but but but s. So it’s like a serial killer movie. That’ll be I’m excited for a serial killer movie. Yeah, they’ve got a lot of serial killer content on Netflix should. And if you, if you start watching like mine, Henderson will forget about it. You’re like the algorithm will be like, Oh, you like serial killers. Here’s Here’s all the fucking serial killers. It’s just like every TV anyway. Um, on October 4th, they release in The Tall Grass, which is based on a novella by Stephen King and Joe Hill. So if any of these jump out at you that you want more information, anything, people being sure we could read the synopsis, but I don’t really care that much. No running Over Fractured will be released on October 11th. I don’t know what fractions about on. Then Eli, released on October 18th is about something, and then rattlesnake. We’ll be released on October 25th. It’s also about something also about presumably a rattlesnake. I think I think fractured has someone recognizable in it. Okay, you go, you’ll figure it out. Um, so So this is notable because Netflix does know how to do horror movies. Like if If you remember about this time last year, maybe November last year we reviewed the ritual, which is, Ah, horror movie done by Netflix. Great. Just Ah, really? Yeah, there’s there’s there’s been some good content put out on Netflix. The ritual The Apostle is probably worth watching, Even Bird Box and the profound bird bird box was fabulous. We’ve reviewed all of those, um, so yeah, they’re kind of going a little deeper into horror. They actually released a special you Earl that will land you on all of Netflix’s horror offerings. If you go to dub dub dub dot netflix dot com slash netflix and chills. It’ll just put you on the landing page for the horror genre. That’s just a quick if you want to simulate shudder. Yeah, through Netflix. You could do that. But why would you want to do that? You know 30. 40 trial by using HMT. Um so well, in the in the poster, this episode will put ah link to the YouTube trailer for that Netflix and Chills event. Next item synapse Films Bringing is Bringing Dario are Gento, Suspiria to four K ultra HD in November on November 19th 2019. That’ll be cool and be a full restoration fork. A restoration of the uncut, uncensored Italian 35 millimeter negative with color correction supervised by cinematographer Luciano Tivoli, Jonno and ah, but but but But it’s a great I don’t think I’ve actually watched the original yet, but we reviewed the remake, which is apparently nothing like the original. I’ve seen bits and pieces of the original, and it is effective. There’s a reason it’s good. Yeah, special features. We’ll include two audio commentaries by authors and our gentle scholars, Derek Botello and David Dill, Vala Troy Howarth. Whatever. Um, bunch of other special features. 123456 Like six notable special features. You can check it out. We’ll put ah the list on the post for this episode. John Carpenter’s Halloween is returning to select theaters beginning September 27th. Yeah, this will be This will be huge. Yeah, it’s ah restored and remastered digital prints, and it was created under the supervision of world renowned cinematographer Dean Cundy. Um, so that will be interesting. Actually, I check the schedule and it’s gonna be a Kiggens theater. Oh, shit. Which is interesting, because last year we went to kick ins theater to watch the original Halloween, but was put up put on by just a local podcast here. Yeah, a small cast, if you will. A, uh, it’s the podcast called the horror killer. I’ll, um, you check them out. Um, if you’re interested in that, get tickets at www dot cinna life entertainment dot com slash events Last Halloween. Another news item. Brendan Fraser is all in for a new mummy movie. Should the opportunity present itself. Shocking Hollywood collectively replies. Yeah, we know guys, just if anything was going on over there like anything at all, I’m really I’m just really excited about whatever it is you’re excited about. Yeah, and it seems like the most likely thing of that is the moment. So it’s like if Christopher Lloyd said, Hey, guys, I’m all for doing another back to the future sequel if you if you need me like yeah, we know, like obviously way, we know that you’re not doing anything. You would make a great that right. We’re not doing that right now or it’s like the Bill, the Bill and Ted’s excellent adventure sequel that’s coming up the not Chiana Reeves guy. It’s probably like, Oh, thank God that it is. I thought that was an interesting but I I don’t understand what brought in and Frasier did to fall out of. I think he was. Well, uh, he got he got fatter and uglier, lost his hair, But George of the Jungle, though Yeah, well, I was never a huge Brendan Fraser friend. To be honest, I didn’t mind him. He hit me. He hit all the expected marks. For what about Monkeybone? Bryce monkey pants. Just always like I could always expect. Kind of kind of not that funny, but goofy but passable. I gotta fuck that’s that’s That’s where he’s at. I got a fun recollection of high school where I was like trying to be a human being for a moment. You know, where I was, like, I don’t know how to be like you people. So let me. So I got one of those three ring binders that had, like, a clear sleeve for the, you know, to put whatever it was. And I was like, Oh, kids are like displaying artistic things on their binders, saws. They just printed out a giant picture of Brendan Fraser. It’s alarming how close you are. So I had a subscription to PlayStation magazine, and in it was a an ad for a wacky looking movie that I had never seen or really heard of. But it was called Monkeybone, and it had, like, a weird little suggestive themes and and kind of fun little. So I took an Exacto knife and cut out all the little little portions of this, including Brendan Fraser and and the wording Monkeybone at the top and displayed them at is like a shadow box at the front of my three ring binder. And then kids just called this was like sophomore year. And then I was Monkeybone. Wow. How much did you regret that after watching the film? I was I was bought and I was like, This is how I do it right? And they’re like, Yeah, look at you. Stupid. No book. I was like, Okay, I’m doing it. I think I’m fitting. So you go Really was like, I got my niche. Now I’m monkey find monkey book like that. I didn’t even like I knew it wasn’t quite, like matching up with how later art being artistic work, right? But it was It was the best. I had, like a right. Nice. And now you have a fair to middling podcast. Showed all of them fuckers. Who’s Monkeybone now? Idiot. Um, speaking of shudder, we weren’t speaking to shutter, but we’ve mentioned them. So should have released a trailer for an original film called Blood Machines. The trailer looks is actually really interesting. It’s kind of like it’s a cosmic horror movie that looks a lot along the style of, um, Mandy. Lots of color, but kind of cosmic or elements will link the trailer on the post to crowdfunded English language French production that follows to space hunters who witness a mystical phenomenon when they see the ghost of young one crawl out of a machine they destroyed. That sounds like right up my alley in the Like that I love the cosmic. Or that’s my favorite. No, no release date as of yet, but go check out the trailer is pretty interesting. We’ll have it on the post for this. This episode at horror movie talk dot com Andy Machete details to deleted scenes that would be part of a potential supercut of both it movies. So I think we mentioned this on the last episode that that Andy Machete has said that he’s interested in doing a supercut where he combines both it films into one gigantic, like six and 1\/2 hour long movie. He talked about two scenes. There’s a scene in the 16 hundreds. These decided not to put in to the film because it was a little confusing would touch more on the origin story of Pennywise. He also talked about a deleted scene where the celestial turtle ner known as mature in an ancient figure who appears in King’s It novel as well as the dark tower. So Okay, good cuts. You know, it’s interesting. Actually, the Pennywise origin stuff might might have been interesting, but ah, yeah, that Z is interesting when you have, like, a two hour and 45 minutes. What? What is cut like At what? At some point, your leg Was there anything that hit the cutting room floor other than his feet on DA And, you know, it’s interesting to it. Chapter two is getting a lot of flack right now for not being LGBT friendly. The Pennywise air Pennywise was very homophone is not, As it turns out, he’s a bad guy. Yeah, he’s not. He’s not accepted. He’s fired. I can get on board with the eating children part, but I draw the line at homophobia. Why would you want him to be inclusive of any part of you? Why would you want him to be on your side anyways? Um, cut more things. Amanda Seyfried is in talks to star Netflix’s horror thriller Things Heard and Seen, uh, which is a movie that could be directed by Sherry Springer. Berman and Robert Pulcini, who were directed her, were nominated for an Oscar for American Splendor. Did you ever see that movie never did. Paul Giamatti as the famous comic book writer. I can’t remember his name. Do you have a good? Do you have a good impression of him of Paul Giamatti? Yeah. No. Okay, I just can’t stop thinking of I can’t remember who it is that does all the Paul Giamatti impressions. I think it’s on the Adam Corolla show, but where it’s just, he’s just on injury. Think I from private parts basically a pig pig vomit. Big moment. Anyone’s that’s That was a really good movie, so this might be like a pretty good movie. The story, a story of things Heard and Seen, centers on a young couple who moved to farm near a small town in upstate New York. Their new home is cursed by the murder of its former owners, and as haunted secrets revealed themselves, the husband and wife’s own marriage reveals itself to have it darkness of its own. Stop it, Um, okay, a couple. Just two more things and we’re gonna go. Toni Colette, our favorite from hereditary, joins the cast of Guillermo del Toro. Is it guilt? Gilera? Guillermo, this is saying it right. This is the most difficult region ever done. Toni Collette are fair from her secretary, Gilma de Toro’s. It’s only hard because because Bryce Hansen is reading it. He’s a mealy mouth piece, a shit Guillermo del Toro’s Nightmare Alley, the next movie being directed by Guillermo del Toro. And it’s an adaptation of the novel by William Lindsay Gresham, which was published in 1946. The novel spawned its first feature film just one year later, starring Tyrone Powers and blah, blah, blah, blah blah. Who cares? Uhm, Tyrone is like the strongest name you could give a child. Well, other than Murdoch, Murdoch is fucking strong to my. My youngest middle name is Murdock on Lee because I couldn’t convince Errand to give it as his first name. But if there was any kid that was named Murdoch, would it not be calling totally would be column is such a fucking Murdock? Yeah, we’re over at your home, Murdoch. We were over at David’s daughter’s birthday, her third birthday last week last week, and your sister in law Look at Colin. It was like, How old is he? Was like, Oh, yeah, This month, he’s gonna turn to She’s like God, he he’s not too yet because he was standing next to Charlotte’s bigger than my three year old. Yeah, he’s just and my three year old is not small like she dwarfs a lot of these way fi kids like there like she’s, she’s I mean, she’s not thick or anything like that. But she’s she’s not a small girl. Yeah, if you were to, like, take a normal sized three year old and like having put their arms down to their side. If you were to, like, draw a rectangle around their shoulders and the arms of their side, widen it by about like an inch, that would be just Collins chest. Absolute unit. Um, he’s wide so that that Nightmare Alley notable also in the cast is Bradley Cooper, Cate Blanchett and Rooney Mara, and sounds like a really good cast. That’s gonna be huge. That could be good, of course. Like I don’t know, Bird box and And the perfection had a really good cast, too. But they’re like, Dude, what do you talk about Bird Box? And is he was huge. Do you remember that? Like this head of steam on that? Yeah. No, I mean, I guess I like both of those films. I like Bird box. A lot is a phenomenon. Uh, okay, So, sadly, Final final. No, The nail in the coffin finally dropping a movie pass shuts down with its parent company citing failure to raise funds on Friday movie past notified remaining subscribers All you bless your heart for still subscribing a movie past. I’m sure they’re very, very shocked at this, but they’re going to shut down. Service is effective September 14th. So it already happened. As of this podcast release, um, its efforts to recapitalize movie pass have not been successful to date. Um, and even even with movie passes of evident demise, I read the press release. It’s actually, like, kind of bittersweet. I kind of felt bad for him because they mentioned that they really did change the movie industry. The yeah, yeah. They in effect accomplished their purpose one year ago. This time one year ago, we were we were subscribed to it. Yeah, it was great for like, a week. And then, like they the shit hit the fan in terms of capitalization and they just could not provide. Service is I think It was just kind of off and on for like, actually providing the service that they promised. But even with movie passes evident demise, the service’s spurred theater chains, including AMC Regal and Cinemark Tow, launch their own rival subscription plans. And last month, Emcee said it. Stubbs A List program, which lets subscribers see three movies weekly for 20 bucks a month, had hit 900,000 subscribers. See, here’s my here’s Here’s My Angle. I’m going to try and get a M C on board. Tiu sponsor us to sponsor them. T sponsor that their service? Because Because, let me tell you, Bryce AMC already sponsors the show. There, they own shutter. That’s true. So let’s let’s got to have some sort of hashtag walrus. Yes, or horror movie talk? Yes, for AMC HMT sponsorship. Yes, yeah, we It would be so sweet Thio to get some sort of deal going. Let’s do Let’s start the hash tag. AMC hashtag AMC sponsorship for HMT now. Yes, don’t do that. We’ll think about it and we’ll get back to you with something that might actually work. Or if you work for AMC Corporate, you just drop him a line and tell us to contact us. That whatever. Um, whatever. That’s our show for today. Oh, it is not. I would like to say thank you to a few people. Jeannie Borland, who gave us a stellar review on Facebook, Who’s like these guys. Brightened my bright my drive Every time I’m going to work, I’m like, Hey, Janey, Thank you. Yeah, it’s really nice. We really appreciate you and listening to us and the nice words that you said about us And also her birthday was Friday the 13. Wow. Dude, I wonder if she’s still with us. Do you wish we had planned? Still with us? Yeah. I mean, your birthday on Friday the 13th. They’re gonna make it out of that. I really wish we had planned for Friday the 13th and released like a nightmare on Elm Street episode. You mean a Friday? The 13th episode? No, I would do. Why would we do that? Yeah, I don’t know. Um, that’s a good point. Also, I’d like to say thank you to ah, Steven, Michael, for for basically just just interacting with us basically constantly on Facebook. I love it. And, uh, e really latched onto the Scorpion King. Uh, add that we ran last week on the chapter two. So thank you, guys if and if I’m missing your name. You know what? I would like to give a shout out to somebody I think about frequently whenever I burp on the show. Dana. Dana, Thank that if you’re still listening. Thank you. I love you. And I think of you every time I burp literally. Um, yeah, thanks. Especially to all our patrons on patri on. We hope you enjoy our exclusive content. If you want to become a patron and unlock exclusive patron content, you can get access to our after pods as well as our one off episodes such as our review of the IT miniseries from 1990. Again be like Janie, review the show, especially on apple podcast. If you have an iPhone, um, give us our AA rating. You don’t even have to leave a review. Just a rating. Be nice. I mean, if you want to be nice about it, you know, five started. I mean, I’m not gonna ask for it, but if you if you’re a nice person, yeah, he’d give a spy, sir. Um, as Well, don’t forget to share the podcast with a friend. It’s the only way we grow and go to our website At horror movie talk dot com, you’ll find links to all our social media and and share links and subscribe buttons and all the doodads and dude as, um, don’t forget to click through that Amazon Associates button and the banner if you’re gonna buy anything on Amazon. Ah, a big shout out to all our international fans. You know who you are. The standout is obviously Magnus there in Sweden. Magnus the man. We got a lot of people listening in the UK Got a lot of people listening in. Ah, Australia. You in South America, we’ve gotten a couple people reach out. Yeah. Good day, mate. Put another shrimp on the Barbie. The country of South America, the whole country of so Okay. All right, guys, have a great week. We love you, bye!